Visas - the interior ministry lawyer is answering questions

[Ozankoy Best Butcher]

on Facebook, in the North Cyprus Expats Group. He`s joined the group specifically to answer questions and clarify the situation and is answering individual questions on there

Karen

[wanderer]

Karen don't do facebook
Can you or someone reading ask if photo of Kochan on your is acceptable as the roc criminally prosecute people who have property documents for property in the North

[JoandJelly]

This is his post copied from Facebook:

Dear group members,

I am the lawyer of the Ministry of Interior. I have joined this group yesterday. I did my best to read and understand as much as anxieties/questions etc about the new residency rules. As I can see, there is a lot of misinformation about this. I will try to clarify as much as i can. If you need additional information, please feel free to ask under this post. Instead of spinning out with endless paragraphs, please use short questions. One more thing: I’m not here to argue about the Ministry’s political preferences; I’m here just to correct any misinformation about the new rules. Here are some, about residency due to property ownership:

“If I dont have title deed, I cant get this kind of permit” WRONG!
If you have a sale contract and you prove that you paid at least 1/3 of the total sale price, you are still eligible for this kind of permit.

“We are a married couple. Title deed is in our names as ½ shares. One of us can get the permit and the other cannot.”.
Yes. Both of you cannot get this kind of permit. But when one gets this kind of permit, the other one becomes eligible for the family permit, which is easier to get.

“We are a married couple. We need 2 times of minimum wage monthly income (1 minimum wage for each, total 2) WRONG.
When one gets permit for ownership, the other is eligible for the family permit. Family permit rules dont require you to have your own income.

“I have savings but I dont have monthly income so I’m not eligible” WRONG.
If you prove that “12 times of minimum wage” is in your bank account, to make a living, that will be enough for one year permit. This rule also applies to those who are not owners so who need to prove 3 times of minimum wage (12 times of 3 minimum wage)

[JoandJelly]

Question: We live in a property with full title deed that is in our daughters name. She lives in UK. We livein that property rent free. What do we need please?

Answer: If you have 3 times of minimum wage income, you can apply for permit due to high income. Or you get the titile deed in your name then 1 minimum wage will be enough.

Question: If we are partners but not married can we get residency if the house is only in one of our names.

Answer: Unfortunately. We dont have partnership laws in TRNC. Sorry for this.

[Ozankoy Best Butcher]

Hi Waddo, have asked your question, will let you know the response

[IPMAN]

Karen don't do facebook
Can you or someone reading ask if photo of Kochan on your is acceptable as the roc criminally prosecute people who have property documents for property in the North

It’s not, the wife went yesterday and they would not accept it, has to be a hard copy.

[Ozankoy Best Butcher]

He hasn`t answered yet but he`s answered other questions after that one, so perhaps he`s looking into it now. I can see it would be quite a stretch to accept electronic copies, given the need for stamps all over everything still but we`ll see. It does seem that whatever is happening at the border is being overridden higher up, info/adjustments/concession etc just haven`t been conveyed to those at the coal face.

[waddo]

Ozankoy Best Butcher, many thanks for that, I wonder which question I asked - lol? Maybe the P60 question or the "Do I have to register in the next 30 days even though I have a visa up till Sept 2020?" question - whichever, anything definite will help. My thanks again as you are more proactive than the BRS!

[Geoff1131]

Waddo, i cant help you with your first query but the other one, Do i have 30 days even though i have a visa until 2020.

What the lady told me last night was that i could have stayed in the TRNC until next October but as i had gone over the border then only 30 days on return. So you should be ok.

[waddo]

Thanks, not going south! But do have an interesting question if anyone would be kind enough to pose it on Facebook. My wife and I rent, we both have pensions, my pensions (net) take me above 3 times minimum (gross) wage, my wife falls short by £40. Is the figure for minimum wage calculated as Gross or Net? And is the income required to be Gross or Net? It makes a big difference!

[teatime]

The minister for immigration has stated today in CT that basically we should ignore the 30 days that people have been given.
From what I read of the immigration lawyer's reply is if you are married only one has to have the required funds.

[Keithcaley]

Thanks, not going south! But do have an interesting question if anyone would be kind enough to pose it on Facebook. My wife and I rent, we both have pensions, my pensions (net) take me above 3 times minimum (gross) wage, my wife falls short by £40. Is the figure for minimum wage calculated as Gross or Net? And is the income required to be Gross or Net? It makes a big difference!

According to the information published in Cyprus Today, only one of you can apply for 'Property owner based residency' - the other one can apply for 'Family Residency' on the back of the first application, and there are no financial strings or qualifications attached to that application at all - just proof of entitlement as a member of the Family - e.g. Marriage certificate.

'Unmarried partners' are currently excluded according to the facebook posting by the Interior Ministry as they are not currently recognised in TRNC.

I shudder to think how they regard 'Same Sex Marriage' !

[Ozankoy Best Butcher]

Hi Waddo, it has to be a bank statement (local or UK), P60 won`t be accepted. The figure for minimum wage has been quoted as 3,400tl monthly (so its gross). The family residency only applies to shared deeds from what I can see of the answers given so far (where one applies and the husband or wife) then doesn't need to prove income.

There are a lot of questions he hasn`t answered but he`s spent a lot of time answering what he can today. On the unanswered questions he maybe needs to consult further. Fair play to him for wading in

Re carrying original deeds, someone has asked if they need to carry their original rental agreement with them and the answer given is no. But no expansion. I`ve asked if electronic copies of deeds/leases is acceptable, no answer as yet.

On the matter of monthly income, there`s no requirement to evidence the source of the income, just for it to be shown on a bank statement, or statements. Not a bear to poke I`d say, as the majority of people will have plenty of time to be putting that together if you catch my drift.

[wanderer]

Many thanks much appreciated

[waddo]

Thank you Ozankoy Best butchers! As expected but worth a question - guess the wife will just have to leave then - lol.

[PoshinDevon]

Thank you Ozankoy Best Butcher.

The questions and answers given I am sure are of a great help and just what has been needed.

Still a bit of a way to go to understand the process of course.....for instance I am sure it mentioned somewhere about being able to download your residency “certificate”. However; cannot see that for a while as I don’t believe doing it all on line including uploading the required paperwork to support an application or making the relevant payment will be available for a good while yet.

However; I think the word is that for over 60s there is no need to panic, plenty of time available. Plus for those over 60 who crossed the border in the last day or so and received a 30 day visa again no panic. No medical requirement for over 60s as reported in local press appears to be a sensible move.

Yavas, yavas......it will settle down over the next few weeks.

Once again thank you!

[waddo]

Good Post Posh, I hate to inject any panic but for those - like myself - who are on the edge of being able to stay or being forced to leave, there is always panic and not of our making. It will only take the TL to gain ground on the £ and leave us with and exchange rate of less than 6.5TL to the £ and it is game over! I guess the answer is to take all our £ and convert it into TL right now but even then, would it really be worth it?

[Ozankoy Best Butcher]

Hi Waddo, more questions were answered last night (not mine though) and here`s one that`s a departure from the written rules re the family residence - he`s advised that couples who rent also need to apply as a family, so one applies for residency showing 3 x minimum wage income and then the second applies under the family rules and doesn`t have to show income (this couple is under 60 mind). Here`s a copy -

Alex Alex Good evening Uğur Çulhaoğlu, firstly thank you for joining this group, you have already put lots of worried mind's at ease. My wife and I are under 60 and rent a villa long term with the Tenancy Agreement in joint names. We also have a joint British bank account with the required income criteria needed. Do we make two separate applications for residency each producing a set of documents or should I apply first then my wife takes the family residency as you mentioned for those who own an immovable property in joints names? Thank you in advance....

Uğur Çulhaoğlu Alex Alex first you get yours, then she gets family permit.


Alex Alex That's super, thanks for clarifying. So basically like a married couple who own a property in joint names, but as we rent I need to show 3 x monthly income per month to get my permit then my wife can apply for hers after?


Uğur Çulhaoğlu Alex Alex Yes.

[bugsy]

Hi,I went over the border on 23rd and received 30 day Visa,does this mean I have to have completed my residency before the 30 days is up,also can I go over the border again before the 30 days is up,thank you in anticipation

[Chriswright03]

Hi,I went over the border on 23rd and received 30 day Visa,does this mean I have to have completed my residency before the 30 days is up,also can I go over the border again before the 30 days is up,thank you in anticipation

Many of us are in the same boat Bugsy. There are at least a couple of Turkish Solicitors working in the facebook group that this thread refers to. They are coming up with answers all the time but it also would seem that there is an expected announcement about the new regulations and what it means to us expats. This was posted earlier. Relax and see what happens this week. My 'limited' understanding is that you have a year to apply and as long as you apply the 30 days will be removed from the equation. So I intend to apply before the 30 days ends but not until some of the confusion has been cleared up. There is a whole lot of gossip, guesswork and false information out there at the moment. Give it chance to settle and then work with what you have.

NEW RESIDENCY LAW AMMENDMENTS
Dear group. I have been invited to this group by a very good friend Seran Niyazi. I am a solicitor and partner of JURIS Law Firm. Untill today i have been trying not to interfere and make comments about law and legal issues of any type for an obvious reason untill today.

I have instructed my team just now to take a note of every single question and information you guys are posting on this group. They will prepare a report not as if we are reporting to a corporate team of lawyers but rather to individuals in short answers with the relevant clause of the law as a note so that everyone can read and make sure that the information given is correct and accurate.
The team of lawyers will need a day or two. Either me or my friend Omnia ElKaramany will post it.
Please please do not panic. Ex-pat community is not the target here. We need you and they know it.

[bugsy]

Thank you

[waddo]

Ozankoy Best Butchers, Many thanks indeed, that has answered all the questions about renting that I needed. I am in the process of producing an Excel spreadsheet (slowly) so that people can add their own figures and get results when things like income/exchange rates etc change, can also be used to project (guess) into the future. I will drop a copy onto this forum when completed in the hopes that it helps people out there.

[wanderer]

A quick question for facebook
Will the 90 days in 180 start from October 23 2019 or your previous be taken into account

[Ozankoy Best Butcher]

Hi Wanderer - answer is -

For the purposes of 180days rule, we dont count the days before 23th Oct 2019.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

It will only take the TL to gain ground on the £ and leave us with and exchange rate of less than 6.5TL to the £ and it is game over! I guess the answer is to take all our £ and convert it into TL right now but even then, would it really be worth it?

That would be one hell of a gamble.
It appears the lire weakening seems to have been a driver of the minimum wage.
The current minimum wage is 2958 TL which would indicate they are aiming for an equivalent of around $500 give or take. The current rate is 5.7754 so 2958 TL is about $512.
So if you have say £25,000 and convert it into TL you’ll get around 185,000 TL at the moment, which if they require 5 years of the annual minimum wage, covers the 177,480 needed.
If we look at 14th August last year the TL was trading at 6.9555 dollars and 8.8764 sterling. If it hits those levels again and they want the minimum wage to be the equivalent of $500 then they will need to raise it to 3,477 TL so you’ll need over 208,000 TL to cover the 5 years of the annual minimum wage so your 185,000 TL leaves you a bit short.

Obviously the TL could gain ground on the £ and it will be a great move but as I said it's a hell of a gamble and if anyone was sure of what the TL rate will be in say 3 years time then finding 3 x or 5 x multiples of the minimum wage wouldn't be an issue.

Personally I can see a case for putting some or even all your money into dollars as a hedge against sterling dropping but TL is a gamble too far for me

[Ozankoy Best Butcher]

The minimum wage has increased already, its now 3,400tl gross, 2,958tl net

[Ozankoy Best Butcher]

I`m off on my hols and Yusuf will be busy holding the fort so if anyone who uses Facebook sees a reply to my questions on the Facebook page and would be kind enough to copy and post on here for those who aren't on Facebook, I`m sure it`ll be appreciated Posted under Yusuf Zorlukasap

Thanks
Karen

[leester polfus]

Ozankoy Best Butcher, thank you so much for stepping in on this. I do have one question to put forward. My Husband is over 60 and because of the Gentlemans agreement he has not applied for residency for the last 4 years. However, he has continued to cross the border every 90 days (to be on the safe side). His 90 days will be up in the next couple of weeks but what we would like to know is, can he now skip that walk over to the South and then proceed to do his residency sometime in the next 12 months. Mine is due in April and it seems it would be better to do them together. Just a thought. Thanks in advance.

[Ozankoy Best Butcher]

Hi Leester, what`s been made very clear is that everyone over 60 has 12 months to get their residency done

What isn`t so clear is whether everyone over 60 who doesn`t currently have residency has 30 days to register their presence at the immigration dept of their local police station (then a year to get residency). When I asked them (in Girne) about this on Thursday, they didn`t know yet what was happening themselves. I`m sure it`ll all come out in the wash pretty soon though

[waddo]

Enjoy your hol's and don't worry about us all here - we will get by I am sure. Take life easy for a change, after this last few days at the very least you deserve a grand time away. Thanks for all the work.

[jayceebee]

The minimum wage has increased already, its now 3,400tl gross, 2,958tl net

From Feb 1st next year?

[Ozankoy Best Butcher]

Hi Jayceebee, from August 2019

[terry2366]

Have sent you a question as a pm