Problems with a gas water heater

[taurus]

We needed to put the gas water heater on for a shower one morning this week, it's either boiling hot or as soon as you think the temperature is comfortable it goes cold. Trying to get the installer to take a look at it but as they don't seem to be interested, i just wondered if anyone one else had
had the same problem, any advice would be appreciated. Thank you

[sophie]

Yes we did, within months of the equipment being installed. We were either boiled or we froze. Our installer went out of business after making a fortune from recommendations from dozens of people on the forum. In the end we just gave up and hait has sat in its container on an outside wall for 2 years now.

[waddo]

A couple of questions for you both then. These questions and I hasten to add not because I am a plumber or a so called plumber with simple "On The Job Training (OJT)" but because I have been using a variety of hot water gas boilers (outside) for the past 8 years now and having never called in an "expert" due to never having had sufficient funds to be able to pay them - have become "Self Taught" in quite a few of these appliances. Always with Safety First in mind and a strong fear of gas and what it can do under ignition, I have only failed once to cure problems of a simple type.

So!

Question one: What is the make/manufacture of your gas boiler?

Question two: What have you done so far to rectify the problem?

Question three: Are you running off mains water pressure or pump water pressure?

Maybe I can come up with an answer for you and maybe not but as I have found in the past some problems are very simple to cure.

[Deniz1]

I have the same problem its an Ariston, the installer said it was my tap being too sensitive which is rubbish. I use pumped water I had a bigger pump fitted in case that was the problem.Had it serviced twice still the same. I dont use it now its hanging on the wall. The other problem is that someone has to get on the roof to switch off the solar panels then again to use them in the summer. Ive given up.

[waddo]

Deniz1, If your Ariston is the one with the glass front then I have had one of those as well - it lasted one season and then the control valve gave up and there are no spares available for them anywhere that I could find. Sadly, because it was good when it worked, it ended up with the scrap man and I went to a different make. Like a lot of the others it also has/had a very small filter jammed up inside the cold inlet side which used to get full of sand stuff very quickly, removing the filter kept it alive for a short while but in the end it was a waste of money! I only ever had the inlet connected to a solar tank once and that was many years ago, it was always a problem and since then I have always used a direct cold connection to the gas boiler and have since removed the solar panels and top tank altogether. I know, if there is a power cut then you have no gravity feed, I know, I know. But I also have a standby generator so if the power is off for a long time I can just switch that on and give myself pumped water again. To be honest the system I have in use now with all tanks on the floor and constant hot water from the boiler is perfect, the gas costs me about 250TL a year and there are two of us living here all year round, no problems. The big bonus is when we have visitors - never, ever run out of hot water or have to wait for the immersion to heat it up again because the tank has been emptied, no immersion to turn on anyway.

[taurus]

Hi Waddo. Thank you for helping us solve our problem. You asked what make our heater is so open the cabinet to look for the name and then we realized the heater was still set up for use in the winter. We've turned every thing down and now the water temperature is acceptable. By asking the question hopefully you'll be able to give advice to others and i'll watch with interest what advice you'll be giving other members which will also be of interest to us. Thank you once again for offering to give us assistance.

[yorgozlu]

Adjust to lower level your settings......

[waddo]

It is no problem - not an expert but just through experience I know that the "junk" that comes down the pipes blocks up the filters in most of these water heaters, some have different problems - like the Ariston model - some are "good to go" right from the start like the Turkish Demir Dokum models, more expensive than most but well worth the extra you spend on them! Where you fit them in the system has a big bearing on the problems as well, I find the closer you can get to your house HOT water inlet the better because then you are not wasting so much water waiting for the HOT to reach your tap. All in all I would never consider going back to the standard solar panel and top tank fit that is most common here but it depends on how long you live here and how much space you have and of course how your original plumbing has been fitted. Remember to clean out the filters in your taps and showers and it all helps as well.

[Deniz1]

I will just stick to the immersion and shower in the afternoon instead of the morning unless theres a power cut of course. Kettle and tin bath comes to mind.

[waddo]

Deniz1 - Ah those were the days! Bringing back those "Golden Years" in our old age - lol. Each to their own I think and do whatever you wish to make life easy. For myself I always try to find an answer and it gives me purpose in life so, within means of course, I will always try to beat the problem and push the envelope just a little bit. I know that many think I am mad, maybe I am, who can say for sure but I do enjoy life and beating little things gives me great pleasure along with helping others where I can. On the downside, it has taken me 8 years to produce a system that works well for all our needs - good job I am not starting out on that track now, I may not have that much time left again - lol. Take care out there and have a great day.

[thornaby]

Assuming there is no fault with the heater there are two things that will cause the problem described.
If the adjustments of the heater are made on a non sunny day and the heater is set say at a temperature at 60 degrees then on a sunny day with the heating of the water from the solar panels that output temperature can easily get to say 90. At around that temperature a thermal switch on the internal pipework will shut the down. This i a safety feature to stop the heater boiling the water. These heaters are low tech, don't know the input water temperature and have no thermostat.
If the heater is producing high temperature water, when using the shower you adjust it by adding more cold to the mix. Because the heater fires up by water flow through the heater to much of a cold input at the shower will mean the hot flow to the heater can be greatly reduced this is because most shower mixer valves have just a single lever. Lack of hot flow is the same as turning the heater off. A solution to this I think is to replace this single lever mixer for one with a knob for the hot and one for the cold.
Running water into a bath gives constant hot with no problems then I add the cold afterwards, a room full of steam but I can live with that.

[sophie]

Having read the explanations for our problems re gas heater, I have now lost the will to live. I paid for and was assured that I could switch immersion off permanently and received constant and easily adjustable hot water throughout the house. Nothing could be further from the truth and the thing sits there on the wall. Strangely enough this subject came up yesterday and the people agreed that the bloke on the Karakum road sold them and obviously us as well a load of nonsense. He also fitted at least a hundred foot or more of pipe work which is now draped all over the roof of the house, which of course means what hot water there was became stone cold by the time it reached a tap. We got him back 3 times to correct matters, on the 4th time, he barred my number, never to be seen again.

[thornaby]

Sophie,
Don't give up. Understanding how they work is the key to getting the best out of these heaters. I have yet to use mine this season.
I do intend to change the mixer valve and am also considering putting a remote on/off switch in the bathroom. Making a judgement that if we have had plenty of sunshine I can switch the boiler off.
Its frustrating that we are sold products that don't live up to the promises given by the supplier and even more frustrating when we can't get these people back to resolve those problems. I think most of the time these people dont know the limitations of these products or how they work!

[thornaby]

It may help if people understand how the temperature adjustments work.
Mine has three dials.
The centre one is marked up, summer, winter, autumn/spring.
The one to the left show a gas flame.
The one to the right says temperature!
All three effect the temperature!
But there is a fourth variable.
The centre one is like your Calor gas heater with three settings. Winter lights three burners (the full width of the horizontal burners. Summer lights just one of three. Autumn/spring lights two of three.
We all probably just use the three burner (winter) setting.
The left (flame ) setting regulates the flame hight like the adjustments on the your gas hob (high to low).
So where as these first two are gas adjustments the remaining dial, right hand on my boiler that is marked up temperature regulates the water flow through the heater. The greater the flow the less heat the water picks up and visa versa.
But, the fourth input is solar heat and that's the source of the problem. If the incoming watter supply was more or less constant then this heater even with no thermostat the heater would be OK.
But,the incoming water temperature can vary enormously and the boiler can't detect or adjust for this!

[Deniz1]

Mine seems quite a basic model winter summer switch that does nothing temp control thats doesnt move at all. So like Sophie it just hangs on the wall outside.If any one wants it they are welcome to remove it!

[sophie]

Deniz1. I suspect you and I are not the only ones who were duped by the same person but others are too proud to admit it!! Actually mine looks quite smart when you open the outer door, trouble is, its not fit for purpose and is b++++y useless. There could be a queue of us, if truth be told.

[Deniz1]

At last my redundant gas water heater has gone. Replaced today with a Demirdokum one. All the old pipework was replaced which was incorrectly fitted and I now have a switch next to the heater to open the solar panel supply in the summer. No more waiting for the immersion heater. Fitted by Orhan Usta very efficient and good english.Total price was 4000tl which included three gas bottles that he picked up for me on his way. 0533 877 5330.