The UKs security after the election?

[topten]

Could the UKs safety be secure in the hands of Jeremy Corbyn as the PM AND Dianne Abbott as Home secretary? God save us

[kaiserphil]

Heaven help us indeed! I shudder at the prospect.

[Maisiemoo]

I watched Diane Abbott on the Andrew Marr show this morning and felt IMO she really would not be up to the job of Home Secretary, nor Emily Thornberry in the job of Foreign Secretary. If these two are the best available to take up one of the 4 great offices of state then the Labour Party will make the UK a standing joke around the world, if by some misfortune they win on June 8th.

[elizabeth]

Diane Abbott isn't fit for a job at Billy Smarts Circus, she is beyond a joke and an embarrassment to the country.

[topten]

It will be alright because she spent 3yrs as a trainee in the home office, making tea picking her nose playing with her afro haircut ?she could not be trusted with anything else especially if it involved addition of anything over 10.

[waddo]

Can I just add that the UK's security before the election is not exactly perfect either - so when you vote, think of what the current Government have done for you already not what they promise they will do after they are voted in!

Not that I am a supporter of any political party and for sure I would never vote for Corbyn the 60's man but do you really think that Diane Abbot is any worse than Boris, he has gone very quiet of late don't you think?

[aripointer]

waddo

I agree 100% with your post.

The Tories do not have a clue either. Teresa May has a lot to answer for. May is a second rate is/was PM and a government to match She was in charge of the Home Office and could not control the immigration numbers she also let terrorists come and go into the UK as they pleased. Teresa May is a box ticker.

Do not underestimate Corbyn. To me he seems to be able to answer all the questions thrown at him. The Tories cannot.

The Labour manifesto is costed. The Tories manifesto is not. It is asking the electorate to sign off a blank cheque and give the pensioners a good duffing over.

By the way. I have voted Tory for the past 60 years.

AP

[silverfir]

Aripointer. Don 't change now, vote for them again, Corbyn is a joke leader of the Labour party

[David]

Diane Abbott ...... ask Micheal Portillo ...

[aripointer]

silverfir

I do have some inside track of how she used to operate the Home Office from an ex government minister.

He told me she is a crass manager and relies too much on two advisors. Eventually he resigned.

Like a number of same minded Tories I know. They will not be voting for their local Tory candidate at the election.

As Paxman said last night Teresa May would be cannon fodder at the EU negotiations.

AP

[topten]

Both Corbyn and John Mc Donnell are self admitted Marxist's Corbyn as refused to sing the National Anthem both shared platforms in support of the IRA. So what it tells me, is that Corbyn knows that under a communist banner he would never get elected so weaselled his way into the Labour party to enable him and his friends to push through communist ideals. Corbyn also would like to abolish the Monarchy.

[erol]

[Dalartokat]

....and the alternative is?

[erol]

....and the alternative is?

Clear

[topten]

So our choice is May or Corbyn, common sense should prevail look at the shadow cabinet and please someone tell me that its not the Monster Raving loony party reinvented, come on please its a joke!! supported by union votes and " students"

[erol]

look at the shadow cabinet and please someone tell me that its not the Monster Raving loony party reinvented,

Happy to oblige. The 2017 Labour party is not the monster raving loony party reinvented,

come on please its a joke!!

I have some 'jokes' for you too.

Aim to eliminate "the bulk" of the UK's structural deficit within five years beginning in 2010
Bring down net immigration to 1990s levels
protect the Winter Fuel Payment, free bus passes, pension credit and free TV licences for pensioners
Support Turkish membership of EU
Give British people a direct say on part of aid spending
Allow retirees to prevent their homes from being sold to fund residential care costs by paying a one-off premium of £8,000 at retirement
Reject any proposals to fund care by levying charge on elderly people’s estates after death.

Eliminate the deficit and be running a surplus by the end of the Parliament
Aim to keep annual net migration in tens of thousands
Protect universal pensioner benefits such as free bus pass, TV licence, and Winter Fuel Payments
ensure Britain has a strong economy, so we can continue to protect the NHS and make sure
no-one is forced to sell their home to pay for care.
Expand the Single Market

Balance budget by 2025
Reduce net migration to tens of thousands
Means-test Winter Fuel Payments
Include value of family home in means test for people receiving social care at home
Allow deferral of care bills until after death to ensure no-one is forced to sell family home
Leave the single market and customs union

Are you laughing yet cause I certainly am not ?

Who can you really trust here ?

When Jeremy Corbyn, a self professed advocate of the UK being a republic rather than a monarchy, says that abolishing the monarchy "is not on anybody's agenda, its certainly not on my agenda" do you believe him ?

When Teresa May said she would not call a snap election before 2020, as she did repeatedly, did you believe her or did you understand that actually meant she would not call a snap election before 2020 , unless and until she thought it would be to her personal advantage and the Tory parties advantage, at which point she would call such a snap election regardless of what she had previously pledged ?
When Teresa May / Tory party said in 2010 they would balance the budget by 2015 did you believe her? When she / they said in 2015 they would be running surplus by 2020 did you believe her ? When she says now that they will balance the budget by 2025 do you believe her ? Protect winter fuel allowance - did you believe that ? Reject any proposals to fund care by levying charge on elderly people’s estates after death ? Did you believe that ? When she said "remaining inside the European Union makes us more secure, it makes us more prosperous." did you believe that ? And on and on and on it goes.

I personally would prefer a UK government be led by someone with real integrity and honesty and consistency, even if they were 'less able', which is yet to be tested in the case of Jeremy Corbyn as far as I am concerned, than by a career opportunist that will and has said anything to try and gain and maintain personal power and power for her party, even if they were 'more able', which is a seriously dubious claim in Teresa May's case anyway given her proven track record of failure to date in government as Home Secretary and now PM. If for the sheer novelty of it if nothing else.

Still each to their own. Have a happy election. Personally I am pinning what hopes I have, as vain as that may be, on the UK under 30's ("students") to give us all a bit of a shock come the morning 9th June.

[johnerebus]

Answering the original question: "Could the UK's safety be secure in the hands of Jeremy Corbyn as the PM?" Ignoring Ms Abbott (Labour) and the Tory buffoon (Boris) because two negatives repel, i.e. "Ladies and Gents I give you Diane and Johnson (what a double act!)" the following succinctly and honestly answers your question

Corbyn has been astute enough to realise the link between Western interventions in the Middle East and the terror threat emanating from the region. This is a link which is rarely discussed except in dismissive terms due to a form of right wing political correctness. As such, his approach targets some of the root factors driving terror ideology and facilitating the conditions under which terror spreads. It is also the most cost-effective method, important given the apparent lack of funds available for other policy areas like the NHS and the elderly.

Corbyn opposed the ill-fated regime changes in Iraq and Libya. He questioned the justifications when it was unpopular to do so. He was right. He warned of the repercussions. He was right. There is no longer any debate that both of these helped provide the space, motivation and chaos for extremist groups to thrive. Isis of course would not even exist if not for the Iraq War, and Al Qaeda would have less recruits.

[johnerebus]

Silverfir,

After aripointer's relatively erudite posting you reply with, "Don 't change now, vote for them again. Corbyn is a joke leader of the Labour party." Is a personal attack the best persuasive argument you can give for voting Tory (Liar Liar)? If so it certainly didn't convince me. In fact the criticism of personality and not policy and your dearth of information says more about the writer than it does about Corbyn.

"Prime Minister, Jeremy Corbyn." Don't mind me. Just practicing. Tee he!

[topten]

look at the shadow cabinet and please someone tell me that its not the Monster Raving loony party reinvented,

Happy to oblige. The 2017 Labour party is not the monster raving loony party reinvented,

come on please its a joke!!

I have some 'jokes' for you too.

Aim to eliminate "the bulk" of the UK's structural deficit within five years beginning in 2010
Bring down net immigration to 1990s levels
protect the Winter Fuel Payment, free bus passes, pension credit and free TV licences for pensioners
Support Turkish membership of EU
Give British people a direct say on part of aid spending
Allow retirees to prevent their homes from being sold to fund residential care costs by paying a one-off premium of £8,000 at retirement
Reject any proposals to fund care by levying charge on elderly people’s estates after death.

Eliminate the deficit and be running a surplus by the end of the Parliament
Aim to keep annual net migration in tens of thousands
Protect universal pensioner benefits such as free bus pass, TV licence, and Winter Fuel Payments
ensure Britain has a strong economy, so we can continue to protect the NHS and make sure
no-one is forced to sell their home to pay for care.
Expand the Single Market

Balance budget by 2025
Reduce net migration to tens of thousands
Means-test Winter Fuel Payments
Include value of family home in means test for people receiving social care at home
Allow deferral of care bills until after death to ensure no-one is forced to sell family home
Leave the single market and customs union

Are you laughing yet cause I certainly am not ?

Who can you really trust here ?

When Jeremy Corbyn, a self professed advocate of the UK being a republic rather than a monarchy, says that abolishing the monarchy "is not on anybody's agenda, its certainly not on my agenda" do you believe him ?

When Teresa May said she would not call a snap election before 2020, as she did repeatedly, did you believe her or did you understand that actually meant she would not call a snap election before 2020 , unless and until she thought it would be to her personal advantage and the Tory parties advantage, at which point she would call such a snap election regardless of what she had previously pledged ?
When Teresa May / Tory party said in 2010 they would balance the budget by 2015 did you believe her? When she / they said in 2015 they would be running surplus by 2020 did you believe her ? When she says now that they will balance the budget by 2025 do you believe her ? Protect winter fuel allowance - did you believe that ? Reject any proposals to fund care by levying charge on elderly people’s estates after death ? Did you believe that ? When she said "remaining inside the European Union makes us more secure, it makes us more prosperous." did you believe that ? And on and on and on it goes.

I personally would prefer a UK government be led by someone with real integrity and honesty and consistency, even if they were 'less able', which is yet to be tested in the case of Jeremy Corbyn as far as I am concerned, than by a career opportunist that will and has said anything to try and gain and maintain personal power and power for her party, even if they were 'more able', which is a seriously dubious claim in Teresa May's case anyway given her proven track record of failure to date in government as Home Secretary and now PM. If for the sheer novelty of it if nothing else.

Still each to their own. Have a happy election. Personally I am pinning what hopes I have, as vain as that may be, on the UK under 30's ("students") to give us all a bit of a shock come the morning 9th June.

Please look at Labour's joke of a manifesto and tell me how it can be funded without massive hikes in taxes, it's Corbyns Santa wish list and you refer to Boris Johnson being as bad as Ms Abbott, I think that give May a stronger hand in this election Boris will go.

[topten]

Please keep your reply short Erol everything you quote can be read in the Daily Worker and I am a busy pensioner with an allotment to de-weed.

[Mowgli597]

Please keep your reply short Erol everything you quote can be read in the Daily Worker and I am a busy pensioner with an allotment to de-weed.

"Minds are like parachutes: they work best when they're open."
Thomas Dewar

[erol]

Please keep your reply short Erol everything you quote can be read in the Daily Worker

You seem to be confusing the Conservative election manifestos from 2010,2015 and 2017 with the Daily worker, for my quotes are direct verbatim quotes from those manifestos ?

[topten]

Please keep your reply short Erol everything you quote can be read in the Daily Worker

You seem to be confusing the Conservative election manifestos from 2010,2015 and 2017 with the Daily worker, for my quotes are direct verbatim quotes from those manifestos ?

Thank you! and hopefully the under thirties were too busy enjoying their beers on their rest period from their "studies" you know the vital ones like sport and media to have remembered to register. Be great if Labour do win they will have more money in their pockets to go and get P####d on a regular basis and that's where the 10,000 more police extra hospital workers and fire-fighter's will come in handy dealing with, and the aftermath of their free period.

[erol]

Thank you! and hopefully the under thirties were too busy enjoying their beers on their rest period from their "studies" you know the vital ones like sport and media to have remembered to register. Be great if Labour do win they will have more money in their pockets to go and get P####d on a regular basis and that's where the 10,000 more police extra hospital workers and fire-fighter's will come in handy dealing with, and the aftermath of their free period.

I would love to see any evidence what so ever that showed or even suggested that the introduction of tuition fees for students in 1998 (by a Labour government as it happens) also led to a discernible reduction in crime levels , NHS usage and fires. As much as I might like to see such evidence I suspect I never will because I suspect that the very premise is false, despite you clearly believing or choosing to believe otherwise. I also wonder , were there not students and young people when YOU were young and the state covered the cost of university education ? Were they / you also so frivolous and self absorbed that they should have been charged for such education back then as a means of reducing their spending on beer, or perhaps 'your' youth were simply a better class of youth than todays ?

Anyway for me the issue in terms of the up coming general election remains one of who can be trusted more from the options available. Personally I find it hard to trust someone who says 'we will not do x' over and over again right up until the point they decide doing x will benefit themselves at which point they then say they will do x. I find it much easier to trust someone who believes in and sticks to their principals regardless of if doing so or not benefits them personally. Call me old fashioned if you like.

[topten]

Thank you! and hopefully the under thirties were too busy enjoying their beers on their rest period from their "studies" you know the vital ones like sport and media to have remembered to register. Be great if Labour do win they will have more money in their pockets to go and get P####d on a regular basis and that's where the 10,000 more police extra hospital workers and fire-fighter's will come in handy dealing with, and the aftermath of their free period.

I would love to see any evidence what so ever that showed or even suggested that the introduction of tuition fees for students in 1998 (by a Labour government as it happens) also led to a discernible reduction in crime levels , NHS usage and fires. As much as I might like to see such evidence I suspect I never will because I suspect that the very premise is false, despite you clearly believing or choosing to believe otherwise. I also wonder , were there not students and young people when YOU were young and the state covered the cost of university education ? Were they / you also so frivolous and self absorbed that they should have been charged for such education back then as a means of reducing their spending on beer, or perhaps 'your' youth were simply a better class of youth than todays ?

Anyway for me the issue in terms of the up coming general election remains one of who can be trusted more from the options available. Personally I find it hard to trust someone who says 'we will not do x' over and over again right up until the point they decide doing x will benefit themselves at which point they then say they will do x. I find it much easier to trust someone who believes in and sticks to their principals regardless of if doing so or not benefits them personally. Call me old fashioned if you like.

Stick to THEIR principles and Corbyn the Marxist has? he is a Communist and therefor surely his principles should not allow him to stand under another party's banner this in itself is deceit, he is putting himself forward as something else.

[erol]

Stick to THEIR principles and Corbyn the Marxist has? he is a Communist and therefor surely his principles should not allow him to stand under another party's banner this in itself is deceit, he is putting himself forward as something else.

Just to be sure that I am understanding you correctly, your contention would be that Jeremy Corbyn in fact has a secret covert hidden communist agenda, that you are able to discern but that I am not ? That he actually seeks to, to give some random examples, take state control of Marks and Spencer and Tesco's and your house and your car and indeed all 'means of production' and to abolish all private property entirely, whilst establishing a single party state that will rule exclusively in perpetuity ? I am sorry but with all due respect I have to ask if you actually really sincerely believe this is true ?

The whole contention to me feels like little more than some kind of 1950's 'Reds under the bed' McCarthyist hysteria if I am honest.

[turtle]

What worries me is that Corbyn and his rabble of mathematical geniuses have not got any positive items in their manifesto to help small to medium businesses that employ the likes of you and me.....by stinging the very rich is a big of a lame policy to put the country on a road to prosperity.
By taking from the more wealthy and giving to the less wealthy does not make both parties wealthy ?

The only mass supporters Corbyn really has is the unwashed brainwashed students and activists who won't toddle off down to the polling station because they can't be arsed.....they don't realise you can't vote by smart phone yet.

[erol]

What worries me is that Corbyn and his rabble of mathematical geniuses have not got any positive items in their manifesto to help small to medium businesses that employ the likes of you and me.....

Simply not true. There is in fact much in the labour manifesto that relates to small and medium sized business. To give just one example the manifesto pledges to reintroduce the lower small profits rate of corporation tax that was abolished by the current government. There is much more besides this that applies positively to small and medium sized business specifically as well if your care about reality rather than rhetoric. In my view to claim there is nothing positive in Labour the manifesto for small or medium sized businesses is just a gross distortion of actual reality. In comparison what positives are there in the conservative manifesto with regards specifically to SMEs ? I see little but waffle myself. Things like "We will ensure that small and medium sized businesses are able to identify the right markets and sectors to win vital contracts abroad."

By taking from the more wealthy and giving to the less wealthy does not make both parties wealthy ?

Firstly the proposed small increase in taxation for those earning in excess of £80,000 pa is not to fund giving the same amount to the 'less wealthy', either directly or indirectly by reducing taxation on those who are 'less wealthy', so your question is moot as far as I can see. The extra funds raised by such taxation are to be used to increase investment in things like education and health care that seek to benefit the entire UK, wealthy and poor alike.

The only mass supporters Corbyn really has is the unwashed brainwashed students and activists who won't toddle off down to the polling station because they can't be arsed.....they don't realise you can't vote by smart phone yet.

Just more disparaging rhetoric as far as I can see. Exactly the kind of disparaging rhetoric that typifies so much of the 'political debate' in the UK currently and that Jeremy Corbyn represents a real antidote to imo.

The fact remains whatever the result of the coming election next Thursday, Labour will be either the biggest or 2nd biggest supported party by share of vote, as has been the case since 1924. This would be impossible if your claim that the only mass support Corbyn / Labour has is "unwashed brainwashed students and activists" who will not bother to vote in any case had any validity what so ever, which it clearly does not imo.

[jofra]

"...The only mass supporters Corbyn really has is the unwashed brainwashed students..."

There's nothing like intelligent, reasoned, informed and non-derogatory comment - and this is definitely nothing like intelligent, reasoned, informed and non-derogatory comment.....
...As a matter of interest, just how many MPs and ministers of all political leaning (but especially those opposed to Corbyn) were students - washed or unwashed?
Methinks most politicians have been to university.....

[turtle]

I think you just answered your own question ....would you trust an MP of any party ?

[turtle]

Erol...Corbyn has just given the performance of a person who is going to lose.....and badly.

Roll on Thursday

[erol]

I think you just answered your own question ....would you trust an MP of any party ?

I personally inevitably trust someone who has been consistent in their views and principles over 30 years in good times and bad, be those views 'vote winners' or not, more than someone who behaves like a career opportunist. To me that is not 'rocket science'.

Erol...Corbyn has just given the performance of a person who is going to lose.....and badly.

So you think and no doubt that was exactly what Teresa May thought back in April 18th when she chose to call this election. For me one of the interesting aspects of this election comparative to others in my life time is that even if the Tories 'win' yet fail to increase their majority to more than say around 30, that would in effect be a loss for them and specifically for Teresa May and a 'victory' for Corbyn and Labour on many levels imo. I think there is still a very real chance that the calling of this election could end up being seen in retrospect as one of the biggest political miscalculation by a PM in my lifetime. Teresa May by calling this election, motivated imo by little more than political opportunism, has manged to unite the Labour party behind Corbyn to a degree that was unimaginable back on April 17th. She has managed in a few weeks, imo, to do more to transform the public's perception of Corbyn and the Labour party he leads than any 'spin doctor' or 'strategist' could ever have hoped to have done in years.

I do not, unlike yourself, profess to be able to predict the result of this election. To me we seem to be in times of a level of political 'volatility' unlike anything I have seen before in my lifetime. I think the result could fall anywhere from 100+ seat majority for Conservatives all the way to a narrow Labour majority. Having said that I have placed a small 'wager' on the outcome of the election My wager is such that if Labour win less than 200 seats or more than 349, I will loose my stake. If they win 200-249, or they win 300-349, I will get my stake back and if they win 250-299 seats then I win 3.25 times my stake.

Roll on Thursday

Indeed. It really does feel to me like I am living in 'interesting times'.

[kibsolar1999]

“interesting times”.. it seems more to be “terrible times”.
30+ years of talking every politician and the country down... and no decent candidate stands for election any more, because they have given up and have no chance anyway + they fear Rupert Murduch and his billionaires gang the moment they do not do what they want.
You can not even elect tory or labour or whatever. You only can elect MPs, you have a completely outdated election system.
So, you will see that there will be neither a nuanced (and maybe also powerful) opposition nor the need for a coalition (which will- must govern with a “coalition contract” ) , nor another opinion represented in parliament as Mays or Corbyns, without the “smoothering” effect to be a member of the EU... .
Terrible.

[turtle]

Political commentators will always make up theories of why some party or another have done what they have done and made some strange decision but that is nothing new.
I personally go with the theory that if the Tories do not win a landslide this time the Brexit is finished which would probably put a huge smile on your face Erol
But the consequences of that would be nightmare for any incoming Labour Government.....I dread to think what unrest that would cause ?

Not a betting man myself but good luck with your wager but don't forget that Labour have all but been wiped out in Scotland and the northern Labour strongholds (my part of the world) are looking very shaky to say the least.
Old Jezzas performance last night with nuclear and immigration will cost him dearly.

[niceone]

the unwashed brainwashed students and activists who won't toddle off down to the polling station because they can't be arsed.....they don't realise you can't vote by smart phone yet.[/quote]

I take exception to that statement, I have two grandchildren who are students, they are very clean and certainly not brainwashed, they both intend to vote as do most of their friends who are also washed !

[erol]

Is this what Teresa May is thinking right now I wonder ?