Winter Fuel Allowance

[elizabeth]

Much has been made of this in the media, do you think it should be available to all or paid only to those who need it/rely on it, and will it influence the way people vote in the General Election.

[terry2366]

Have they taken yours away? Wait until you know if you qualify before panicking.

[waddo]

Anything that is taken away from the "Handouts" nation will affect the election. I think the heating allowance should only be claimed by and only be paid to those who really need it IMHO!!

[rocking]

People will always say "we have paid in" but if you really do not need it and these payments go to help those in real need, no do not think everybody needs it. Vote loser, I expect a few votes will be lost.

[elizabeth]

Have they taken yours away? Wait until you know if you qualify before panicking.

I'm not panicking, I just asked the question.

[Mowgli597]

Well if you're resident in the TRNC you're not entitled to it anyway

[jofra]

... I think the heating allowance should only be claimed by and only be paid to those who really need it IMHO!!

I would agree with that but for one fact - I know people (sadly including relatives) who have worked most or all of their lives, sometimes earning very good money - and spent it lavishly, not saving a penny. In due course, because they have no savings (and often nothing other than state pension), they are entitled to (and receive) pension credits, council tax benefits, housing allowances, home improvement/insulation grants, and too many other items to list.
I worked all my life (usually earning considerably less than those relatives and others) - I paid into a company pension; I saved; I did not do without, but I did not spend senselessly - and what do I get? A bus pass, somewhat less than two months' fuel bills paid - and nothing else, because I do not qualify - I'm not "poor" enough! !
No doubt I sound bitter, but when some of those that I have known have also paid little (or any) tax on those good earnings because they did not (fully) declare....
While I probably do not need the fuel allowance, given the above, I feel that I have earned it...

[terry2366]

Maybe they could concentrate on allowances like £300 per day for attending the lords most of which do not need it !!

[elizabeth]

Much has been made of this in the media, do you think it should be available to all or paid only to those who need it/rely on it, and will it influence the way people vote in the General Election.

[journey1]

I'd rather see the funds go to lifting children out of poverty whilst still giving the allowance to pensioners who really need it in cold climates.
Certainly not for those living in areas/countries where temperatures are certainly not in minus degrees over extended periods.
It's about social morality not ' paying in '

[Ragged Robin]

... I think the heating allowance should only be claimed by and only be paid to those who really need it IMHO!!

I would agree with that but for one fact - I know people (sadly including relatives) who have worked most or all of their lives, sometimes earning very good money - and spent it lavishly, not saving a penny. In due course, because they have no savings (and often nothing other than state pension), they are entitled to (and receive) pension credits, council tax benefits, housing allowances, home improvement/insulation grants, and too many other items to list.
I worked all my life (usually earning considerably less than those relatives and others) - I paid into a company pension; I saved; I did not do without, but I did not spend senselessly - and what do I get? A bus pass, somewhat less than two months' fuel bills paid - and nothing else, because I do not qualify - I'm not "poor" enough! !
No doubt I sound bitter, but when some of those that I have known have also paid little (or any) tax on those good earnings because they did not (fully) declare....
While I probably do not need the fuel allowance, given the above, I feel that I have earned it...

Totally agree Jofra - same applies to me! The problem is none of the benefits now available in the UK are really fairly distributed and as in other things so often the responsible suffer for the "sins" of others.

When I checked on the Winter Fuel Allowance for overseas the rule was that if you had been in receipt of it while you lived in the UK you got the allowance. If you were "too young" when you left the UK regardless of current age you did not get it! How fair is that?

[Ragged Robin]

I'd rather see the funds go to lifting children out of poverty whilst still giving the allowance to pensioners who really need it in cold climates.
Certainly not for those living in areas/countries where temperatures are certainly not in minus degrees over extended periods.
It's about social morality not ' paying in '

That is all very well but if you are living in a climate like Cyprus, living ina damp and leaking house designed for hot weather, and cant carry gas cylinders or logs, and cant afford electricity, and are elderly and infirm or indeed younger and in bad health, you are still in danger or hypothermia, bronchitis, influenza etc!

[Groucho]

The plan is to means test it.... well that's bonkers because as we all know the cost of means testing will far outweigh the savings.... It's a stupid idea. But that has never stopped them in the past has it?

Actually it has - every time they do a cost/benefit analysis of the likely savings they soon realise that employing hundreds of extra civil servants with the ensuing pensions entitlements (and all that that involves) makes no financial sense whatsoever.... Remember that ALL pensioners who would possibly be entitled would need to be means tested... that's a big block of work to be done...

Let's see if they cast aside the logic and do it anyway in the cause of the politics of envy which seems to drive so many decisions these days...

I have no axe to grind as I'm too young to qualify or care other than I would hope they will see sense in the costings of such a move.

[the butler]

When we moved to the TRNC over 6 years ago, we thought honesty was the best policy and informed the department of pensions.
We received the fuel allowance for the first 4 years and then we were informed that it had stopped for people living abroad. For the
last 2 years we have not received any fuel allowance. Last winter was the longest, coldest and wettest, we have known since
moving here and our log burner was on all day most days. It would have helped to have received the fuel allowance but it was our
choice to move here, where the summers are longer and the winters are much milder and shorter most years.
Of course if you did not inform the pensions department that you have left the UK, you will still receive the winter fuel allowance.

The butlers wife

[Groucho]

I'm not advocating anybody claiming it who lives here full time - what I am saying is that means testing it for all to 'save' a few millions but costing many millions more is plain daft.

For those swallows that are entitled to it - I can foresee many admin problems - benefit denied, followed by an appeal with all the ensuing costs only for them to get the fuel allowance after all... It's penny-wise. pound-foolish to think it's a simple matter - it's not and it will cost a small fortune and bring in a negative balance for the Exchequer to boot.

[Maisiemoo]

I would expect the winter fuel allowance to only be paid to those already in receipt of pension credit, thus eliminating the need to take on extra staff.

[jofra]

...So as I pointed out in post 7, those who saved nothing and spent everything should get it, while those (like me) who weren't selfish and profligate should be deprived i.e. punished for considering and safeguarding (?!) our future?

[elizabeth]

If people are on pension credit it's because they need it in their old age, some may be elderly widows who are on a basic pension due to staying home to raise children, not all of them have wasted money during their younger years.
Those like MPs on £100.000 per year or multi millionaires should not be getting this payment, they may have paid into the system but they do not need £200 to pay their fuel bill.
In 2013 Ed Balls advocated taking this off higher tax payers so why are they up in arms now ?

[Lodger]

Sorry deleted my post.

Was going to comment on Ragged Robin post, but was to overcome to finish it !!!!

[deputydawg]

Because of the way in which government in UK have been seeking every avenue possible to snatch more and more monies back from pensioners I feel certain that the state pension will soon become means tested and those deemed to be well off enough to live on private pensions or capital in banks etc will be denied some or all of their state pension. This has been muted many times before and caused outcry. We are now in times where Banks can make themselves figures in the brackets 4 to 10 per cent for using pensioners savings for loans but pay as little as .25 per cent to the pensioners for their total savings. The triple lock on pensions which has just been set aside by T May was a scam. The guaranteed annual rise of 2.5 per cent applied to the "basic" state pension only ie your daily rate of pension less any additional pension paid in such as graduated and other payments for enhancement paid over many years. In my case I paid into everything possible for nearly 50 years and opted out of nothing but now advised that the government themselves opted me out of two elements of pension payment. From April this year the personal allowance is £12500 per annum and tax to be paid on every penny income over that. My pension rise was £18.50 per month less tax at 20%. Parliament granted themselves a salary rise of, I am told, £1,500 per annum. But, always look on the bright side of life !

[gary&shirley]

I was of the understanding that the personal allowance 2017 - 2018 was £11500.00 not £12500.00.

[jofra]

£11500 is correct, but if your spouse is a non/low-taxpayer, you can apply to be granted 10% of his/her personal allowance, increasing your allowance to £12650 and reducing theirs to £10350... (this year's figures).

[waddo]

So if I get this right: If you earn more than 11500 a year you pay tax on everything over that? If you earn less than 11500 a year you don't pay any tax? If you earn more than 11500 a year and your spouse is a non taxpayer then you can have some of her/his tax relief - that they don't use or need anyway - and your allowance grows to 12650 a year before you have to pay any tax?

So the Government is giving you an extra 1150 tax relief by reducing your spouse's tax relief - that they don't need or use anyway - by the same amount?

What a wonderful Government to do such a thing when all they had to do was say you can join you and your spouse's tax relief together for those with a spouse that is a non tax payer anyway! Or is it just me that can't see the wood for the trees??

[woodspeckie]

You have to apply for Marriage Allowance it then reduces the higher earners tax by up to £230 a year.

[jofra]

What a wonderful Government to do such a thing when all they had to do was say you can join you and your spouse's tax relief together for those with a spouse that is a non tax payer anyway....

Ah, but if they did that (gave you all your spouse's allowance), they'd lose too much - in my case alone, last year I saved £230 but still paid £1700. If I could have had all my wife's allowance, I would not have paid a penny tax!
Just one person - consider how many in the country would be the same - and the loss to the government....

[deputydawg]

In my post of 25 May 17 I referred to my personal allowance free of tax as £12,500 per annum when it of course is only £11,500 per annum. I apologize for the error. I tend to think of it as up to £12,500 per year as for the last year no tax is charged on bank interest up to the sum of £1,000 per annum. That said, it is wrong to believe that no tax is paid on state pensions if the gross sum of that is higher than the £11,500 personal allowance. In my case I also have an Army pension upon which I have to pay tax at 20%. That pension is taxed a second time at 20% on every £ that my state pension exceeds my personal allowance. In other words state pensions can be taxed by issuing a tax code number which directs the Paymaster General to take the tax due on my state pension from my Army Pension payments.

With regard to the Winter Fuel allowance, it is indicated that only those in receipt of certain welfare benefits will be likely to retain, or be granted, that payment. As in TRNC fuel prices have been raised considerably, and rates for water also, against the background of rising inflation.