Out of single market

[aripointer]

Just one question to add to the debate.

We all know how much it costs the UK to stay in the EU.

But how much will it cost the UK short and long term to leave the EU?

AP

[Ragged Robin]

Thanks Dalartokat - though I am not really much wiser! I would like to know (what the media is not telling us and I suspect Was does not know) is how many "British citizens" are working "at"( and I assume it is "at" not" in") Europe, what are they doing and How much are their salaries and other perks are costing the British Taxpayer. How important is their presence in the EU or is it another case of "jobs for the boys"? Maybe this could well be another good reason for getting out of the EU as soon as poss before we run up even more unacceptable bills!

[turtle]

RR,..Don't quote me on this but a quick google calculation says there are over 46,000 employed and about 1.2% are Brits so in answer to your question about 600 Brits work within the EU.

[turtle]

It appears those figures were for 2013/14 ?

The numbers now stand at about 1,100 but it does say that they are "Union" employees and they left their Nationalists hats at the door when they entered.
So all I can assume is that they are paid by and employed by Brussels ?

[Ragged Robin]

So if they are employed by Brussels presumably it is on EU terms of service and the EU are responsible for occupational pensions etc. Unless they continue to contribute to the NHSin which case they would qualify for the NHS pension regardless of Brexit.

If on the other hand if they are British civil servants on secondment to Brussels, then the British Govt. would be responsible direct and presumably repatriate them and reemploy with pension rights in Britain or negotiate redundancy

Is it my suspicious mind, or are these pensions actually to be paid to useless (or worse than useless ) politicians who got themselves a nice little sinecure in Brussels and intend to keep their perks regardless of who pays the bill!!!!!!

[turtle]

RR
Who knows what the situation is in the EU, behind closed door deals and shinanigans with finance I would imagine to unpick this lot would uncover some really unpleasant stuff.

Whatever happens from now on in it will include large sums of money because that is what makes the EU gravytrain tick,..... get ready for some very large and greedy demands.

[jacob]

All of which I hope are rebutted by our PM.

[waz-24-7]

Last few posts appear to focus on monies that the EU may or may not require in order to fulfill obligations that the UK signed up for.
Pension obligations in or out of the EU have recently been a very hot topic. Massive deficits are common place. BHS, final salary schemes, etc.
Pension schemes and ambitions of same have become misguided, false economy and frankly disastrous for many.

In the scheme of things and over time any obligations to the EU will become insignificant as more critical progressive matters take precedent.

[waz-24-7]

Thanks Dalartokat - though I am not really much wiser! I would like to know (what the media is not telling us and I suspect Was does not know) is how many "British citizens" are working "at"( and I assume it is "at" not" in") Europe, what are they doing and How much are their salaries and other perks are costing the British Taxpayer. How important is their presence in the EU or is it another case of "jobs for the boys"? Maybe this could well be another good reason for getting out of the EU as soon as poss before we run up even more unacceptable bills!

I cannot really see the importance now given the divorce underway. However, what I can tell you with confidence is that UK government and civil servant staffing requirements to write, implement, administer and maintain the massive amount of NEW UK ,law, legislation and administration will certainly digest with ease any funds that come available from ex EU funding. Pensions and all.
Please don't think that leaving the EU is going to flood the UK with spare cash. The BREXIT "health service" ticket has quickly been washed down the river.

[geroff]

Thanks Dalartokat - though I am not really much wiser! I would like to know (what the media is not telling us and I suspect Was does not know) is how many "British citizens" are working "at"( and I assume it is "at" not" in") Europe, what are they doing and How much are their salaries and other perks are costing the British Taxpayer. How important is their presence in the EU or is it another case of "jobs for the boys"? Maybe this could well be another good reason for getting out of the EU as soon as poss before we run up even more unacceptable bills!

I cannot really see the importance now given the divorce underway. However, what I can tell you with confidence is that UK government and civil servant staffing requirements to write, implement, administer and maintain the massive amount of NEW UK ,law, legislation and administration will certainly digest with ease any funds that come available from ex EU funding. Pensions and all.
Please don't think that leaving the EU is going to flood the UK with spare cash. The BREXIT "health service" ticket has quickly been washed down the river.

How can you make such assumptions Waz regarding 'health service' ticket being quickly washed down the river? ... Do you have personal insight into what funds will go where after article 50 has been administered ? No, of course you dont, again just trying to down Brexit, ....

[waz-24-7]

Thanks Dalartokat - though I am not really much wiser! I would like to know (what the media is not telling us and I suspect Was does not know) is how many "British citizens" are working "at"( and I assume it is "at" not" in") Europe, what are they doing and How much are their salaries and other perks are costing the British Taxpayer. How important is their presence in the EU or is it another case of "jobs for the boys"? Maybe this could well be another good reason for getting out of the EU as soon as poss before we run up even more unacceptable bills!

I cannot really see the importance now given the divorce underway. However, what I can tell you with confidence is that UK government and civil servant staffing requirements to write, implement, administer and maintain the massive amount of NEW UK ,law, legislation and administration will certainly digest with ease any funds that come available from ex EU funding. Pensions and all.
Please don't think that leaving the EU is going to flood the UK with spare cash. The BREXIT "health service" ticket has quickly been washed down the river.

How can you make such assumptions Waz regarding 'health service' ticket being quickly washed down the river? ... Do you have personal insight into what funds will go where after article 50 has been administered ? No, of course you dont, again just trying to down Brexit, ....

One of the clear marketing slogans for BREXIT was the money that would be SAVED and made available by departing EU subscriptions. One of the flags being waved on the side of the BREXIT campaign bus was an injection of subscription money into the NHS. Even before article 50 submission. It is very clear to me that there will be and is no slush fund from subscription savings. The cost of BREXIT in just administration terms is likely to be massive and will swallow subscriptions with ease.

Furthermore. To avoid doubt. Yes I was against BREXIT. The UK is departing Europe that is accepted and my own road map is changing accordingly. The next and critical step is how we progress to relate and co operate with Europe and the rest of the World. Talk of pension liabilities and pedantic nit picking over Brussels staffing and who does what is really insignificant in the greater and future picture.

I assume that this type of nit picking will be directed towards a discontentment with the UK Government its staff, pensions and salaries etc once people can no longer blame Brussels.
Perhaps we will see an emergence of more localised governance in the UK and then the new Brussels will be London.

[waz-24-7]

Geroff

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nhs-pledge

self explanatory and indeed what a lie !!
I hope you were not one of the hoodwinked.

[jacob]

Oh, the Labour rag...Thw Guardian...I'm not saying £350m will go in but a lot will...that article was in Sept, last nights question time Chris Grayling.

[geroff]

Waz, for a start, I do believe its you who is trying to hood wink us all with your unfounded rants! ... Anna Soubry is one of the most stupides women in politics, think she could be rated along side of Nicola Sturgen! ...
Any one with an ounce of intelligence knew that pledge would only become a reality WHEN we actually leave the club! .... not before, as we, GB, are still paying into the club! ....
The Gardian politics is just again some reporter reporting half a story, not complete facts .. Bit like yourself really

[turtle]

The Guardian...?
Isn't that the far left anti capitalism paper read by luvvies and the likes ?

[Munchkin]

THIS IS FOR THE REMOANERS





GROW UP AND PULL TOGETHER OR LEAVE THE U.K

[geroff]

The Gaurdian...?
Isn't that the far left anti capitalism paper read by luvvies and the likes ?

yes of course it is turtle , but waz thinks its all true lol...

Waz, you must not believe every thing you read, because most of us dont , ....

[geroff]

Well said Munchkin...

My thoughts exactly ...

This is how the remoaners should now be ... .. Shut up or clear out ...

[waz-24-7]

OK
Now the posts are devoid of anything worthy of debate or intelligent comment.
Mud slinging only illustrates the desperate lack of understanding, knowledge or ability.

[Mowgli597]

Together with atrocious spelling!

[Ragged Robin]

Together with atrocious spelling!

I am glad you said that Mowgli! I was itching to , but did not dare for fear of reprisals

[Ragged Robin]

All of which I hope are rebutted by our PM.

Hear, Hear!

[Ragged Robin]

Thanks Dalartokat - though I am not really much wiser! I would like to know (what the media is not telling us and I suspect Was does not know) is how many "British citizens" are working "at"( and I assume it is "at" not" in") Europe, what are they doing and How much are their salaries and other perks are costing the British Taxpayer. How important is their presence in the EU or is it another case of "jobs for the boys"? Maybe this could well be another good reason for getting out of the EU as soon as poss before we run up even more unacceptable bills!

I cannot really see the importance now given the divorce underway. However, what I can tell you with confidence is that UK government and civil servant staffing requirements to write, implement, administer and maintain the massive amount of NEW UK ,law, legislation and administration will certainly digest with ease any funds that come available from ex EU funding. Pensions and all.
Please don't think that leaving the EU is going to flood the UK with spare cash. The BREXIT "health service" ticket has quickly been washed down the river.

The importance, waz, is that I am trying to highlight just one area where the UK has been incurring probably unnecessary, and possibly unethical expenses as a result of membership of the EU and the difficulty in discovering just what is and has been happening. I feel it is particularly important in that people like you still cannot understand the harm membership has done our country - and others. Yes of course there will be costs involved in rectifying all the damage that has already been done, and it might take some time before we begin to see the benefits of being in control of our own counry again - indeed sadly for me I very much doubt if it will be in my lifetime. However IMHO it is far better for the future that we cut our losses and start again with a fresh slate. Of course there will still be politicians, civil servants and others who manipulate their power for their own benefit - unfortunately that is human nature - but it will be easier to detect, identify, contain and control it , without the smoke screen of European bureaucracy

[jofra]

Now here is an interesting item - are we now going to be swamped with Aussie immigrants in place of EU immigrants?
Considering the concerns about all the criminal elements from the EU, aren't most Aussies descended from convicts and criminal elements....

[turtle]

So all the lags are on their way home...

[turtle]

One of the clear marketing slogans for BREXIT was the money that would be SAVED and made available by departing EU subscriptions. One of the flags being waved on the side of the BREXIT campaign bus was an injection of subscription money into the NHS. Even before article 50 submission.

Waz
Shall we start listing all the horror stories from the remainers at the time....just to keep the argument balanced you see..

[waz-24-7]

Thanks Dalartokat - though I am not really much wiser! I would like to know (what the media is not telling us and I suspect Was does not know) is how many "British citizens" are working "at"( and I assume it is "at" not" in") Europe, what are they doing and How much are their salaries and other perks are costing the British Taxpayer. How important is their presence in the EU or is it another case of "jobs for the boys"? Maybe this could well be another good reason for getting out of the EU as soon as poss before we run up even more unacceptable bills!

I cannot really see the importance now given the divorce underway. However, what I can tell you with confidence is that UK government and civil servant staffing requirements to write, implement, administer and maintain the massive amount of NEW UK ,law, legislation and administration will certainly digest with ease any funds that come available from ex EU funding. Pensions and all.
Please don't think that leaving the EU is going to flood the UK with spare cash. The BREXIT "health service" ticket has quickly been washed down the river.

The importance, waz, is that I am trying to highlight just one area where the UK has been incurring probably unnecessary, and possibly unethical expenses as a result of membership of the EU and the difficulty in discovering just what is and has been happening. I feel it is particularly important in that people like you still cannot understand the harm membership has done our country - and others. Yes of course there will be costs involved in rectifying all the damage that has already been done, and it might take some time before we begin to see the benefits of being in control of our own counry again - indeed sadly for me I very much doubt if it will be in my lifetime. However IMHO it is far better for the future that we cut our losses and start again with a fresh slate. Of course there will still be politicians, civil servants and others who manipulate their power for their own benefit - unfortunately that is human nature - but it will be easier to detect, identify, contain and control it , without the smoke screen of European bureaucracy

RR
I would agree that your sentiments are indeed noble. However not enough emphasis has been made of the deeper purpose and objectives of a Unified Europe. Peace and Security in the World does not come easily or cheaply. Peace and Security for future generations is critical for the survival of the human race.
For certain ;economics and prosperity are noble aspirations also. The cost and difficulties in maintaining and supporting a union is clearly not easy or simple. It is a wise , educated and forward thinking population that can see the bigger picture and objectives and work to overcome hurdles and difficulties that abound in an increasingly divided world. The foolhardy and weak will resign and unwittingly seek refuge behind their own walls on a misguided notion that alone they can be stronger and or "great again". History should have taught the human race that division , non cooperation and segregation offers no peace or security. A new world order is on our horizon. An order that pays little heed to history or even aspires to peace in our time.

[waz-24-7]

One of the clear marketing slogans for BREXIT was the money that would be SAVED and made available by departing EU subscriptions. One of the flags being waved on the side of the BREXIT campaign bus was an injection of subscription money into the NHS. Even before article 50 submission.

Waz
Shall we start listing all the horror stories from the remainers at the time....just to keep the argument balanced you see..

Given that The UK is leaving the European Union and also on the basis that the NHS point was referenced to a particular post.
I see no point but go ahead if you think it assist s the debate.

[turtle]

Your words are very commendable Waz but for months and months we have been saying that the EU have to start listening to the people but they totally ignored us...foolishly.

Now the movement of "change" is growing by the day and you have to understand that if it wasn't the Brits that stood up it would have been one of the others, the meeting today in Germany is the bigger picture and you really should take note.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... -Petry-AfD

[turtle]

One of the clear marketing slogans for BREXIT was the money that would be SAVED and made available by departing EU subscriptions. One of the flags being waved on the side of the BREXIT campaign bus was an injection of subscription money into the NHS. Even before article 50 submission.

Waz
Shall we start listing all the horror stories from the remainers at the time....just to keep the argument balanced you see..

Given that The UK is leaving the European Union and also on the basis that the NHS point was referenced to a particular post.
I see no point but go ahead if you think it assist s the debate.

I merely make a point of which you obviously disregard ?

[waz-24-7]

Turtle
Yes indeed.
I have been describing this change for some months . The political landscape of Europe and now the USA has moved decisively to the right. I think standing up is not the issue or at least not in the sense of resign, divorce and withdrawal. Standing up to what we truly want and need. What is fair and proper for peace, security and prosperity for all mankind.
Whilst I am certainly right of centre politically. The clear hard right that includes (my opinion) Mr Farage, Le Pen et al are taking Europe back to the 1930's with that era's fanatical and expansionist leaders who took us so quickly and easily into war.
Now we have nuclear weapons that can destroy countries in minutes. We can see quite clearly the emergence of individual nations with this type of destructive power. It could take just a single rogue and unpredictable leader( there is indeed a few) to start a war like no other and possibly the last that we would see.
My view, that is quite well known by now on this matter is that Unions, cooperation and tolerance are essentially safe guards for the longevity of the human race. Such a Union is indeed what we see in Europe.

[turtle]

Waz
It is interesting how you are now shifting your argument to the possibility of war and to be honest I share your concern.
But surely you can you can understand that the way the average working man/woman has been grossly let down by the acts of EU law and the constant ways they keep people where they want them with fear and possible retribution to achieve their own ends is perverse in the least.
Other forms of avoiding any possible conflicts need to be sort but please lets not blame the downtrodden population for standing up for what is rightfully theirs...... Democracy.

[niceone]

THIS IS FOR THE REMOANERS





GROW UP AND PULL TOGETHER OR LEAVE THE U.K

All you ever post is things like this

You are telling people to leave the U.K, if they don't agree with you but you don't even live here, you want to leave TRNC and you think it's going to be so great post brexit why don't you move back here?

[waz-24-7]

Waz
It is interesting how you are now shifting your argument to the possibility of war and to be honest I share your concern.
But surely you can you can understand that the way the average working man/woman has been grossly let down by the acts of EU law and the constant ways they keep people where they want them with fear and possible retribution to achieve their own ends is perverse in the least.
Other forms of avoiding any possible conflicts need to be sort but please lets not blame the downtrodden population for standing up for what is rightfully theirs...... Democracy.

Turtle you are absolutely correct.
I have always , like most, been rather dismayed at how the EU has been run and administered but not to the extent that I think a divorce is best. The UK team of MEP;s have failed to make effective representation to secure change. Perhaps there was a lack of willing or even skill. But, as you know, I am a supporter of the type of Union that was laid down within Europe post the last great war. The UK will most definitely survive and I do hope we prosper too. The Longer term global picture is less certain and concerning as right wing and religious extremism is now common place
What is done is done. The road ahead for global cooperation and tolerance has become rather tougher of late as the political and religious landscape moves and changes. Political leaders have a very serious responsibility to deliver the type of peace and understanding that mankind in general deserves and desperately needs. The focus of many leaders at the moment is a mix of nationalism, intolerance and expansionist. Hardly the aspirational path to world peace. We must live in hope and endeavour to support with vigour the notion that world peace can be achieved.