What Internet speeds/service would you like?

[Butterflyaway]

I was thinking what do I require from my Internet provider. In my case, I download films and torrents, usually in HD. I also want to watch Sports on NTV also in HD. So my priority, would be for 4mb download at peak times when sport is on and a lower speed for downloading the rest of the time.

I know we will all be different, but would it not be great to have control over what you use to what you pay?

Say I am allowed 8mb per day. If my sport programme used 4mb per hour, I would be happy to have no download left, as my sport in HD is my priority.

What do you want?

[Carbotec]

All I require from my ISP is a reliable consistent connection, I am with Multimax paid for a 10Mb many months later not got anywhere near the 10Mb.
Would just like a reliable service where you get what you pay for.

[sophie]

I'm not going to vote (other than perhaps Other) I want what I pay for and to a greater or lesser extent, that is exactly what I get. Multimax, Extend or the others are basically dependent upon TTC and their cables. It can't be easy to run such a service in this country, there are so many outside factors over which they have no control.

[waddo]

Sorry but I can not understand the reason for the poll??? My answer, like anyone else's, would be simply "Free and as fast as can be achieved given the current connectivity availability". That answer is not there, however, I already have one part of my answer and have no doubt at all that the first party - that of being "Free" - will never happen.

Therefore you get my vote of "Other" which without this explaination is totally pointless.

[desih]

Just tested my Multimax connection, 49.50 MB download, 4.49 MB upload, excellent.

[Hector]

I would like my internet speed to be what I have paid for, that's up to 15mbs consistently allowing me to use the internet when I want to use it. I'm not a power user. I don't download films or other internet hungry programmes or whatever. I like to surf the net, check my emails, watch UK TV programmes in the evenings and weekends.

That means I don't expect to get less than 2mb in the evenings or weekends because of 'high demand'. You don't do a deal with say your butcher, paying 1000tl up front for say up to 15kgs of meat per week for a year and then get told you can only have a couple of ounces today because of a lot of customers. You expect the butcher to have bought in enough meat to meet demand. Not a good business model if they don't. Ok not the best analogy but I hope you can see my point.

I hate this 'up to' basis which means from 0 to whatever and depends on the weather, too many customers or other 'technical difficulties'.

Please accept I really admire and respect those that go into business, invest, take the risks. Have a great customer delivery ethic especially in difficult times and locations. A company that delivers what it promises, is open, honest & upfront with their customers. Who accept criticism, learn from it and not get defensive or take it personally.

I am but a humble customer,I pay up front and don't abuse the system. Is it too much to get the service I expect?

[erol]

I would like my internet speed to be what I have paid for, that's up to 15mbs consistently allowing me to use the internet when I want to use it. I'm not a power user. I don't download films or other internet hungry programmes or whatever. I like to surf the net, check my emails, watch UK TV programmes in the evenings and weekends.

I am afraid that streaming TV over the internet is a heavy demand form of internet usage, no different in essence from 'downloading films' in terms of the load it places on your connection. Video of any sort, streaming, downloaded or via a Skype conversation with camera enable is a data intensive thing. So you may perceive yourself as a 'light' user but in fact if you stream video in any sort of regular way then you are not a 'light' user.

That means I don't expect to get less than 2mb in the evenings or weekends because of 'high demand'.

If you are getting less than 2mbs (and you are testing correctly) with a Multimax connection then something is wrong. This may be a general issue or it may be local and specific to you but 2mbs or less would not be considered a working connection by Multimax. If you are seeing , at the height of peak times say 4mbs this would be considered acceptable by us, even on an 'up to' 15Mbs service and would still represent over double the speed of our competitors like Nethouse Networks for 250Tl a year less than they would charge for such.

You don't do a deal with say your butcher, paying 1000tl up front for say up to 15kgs of meat per week for a year and then get told you can only have a couple of ounces today because of a lot of customers. You expect the butcher to have bought in enough meat to meet demand. Not a good business model if they don't. Ok not the best analogy but I hope you can see my point.

It is in fact a terrible analogy for so many reasons but one that keeps coming up over and over. A much more suitable analogy would be the advertised top speed of a car or even its advertised urban fuel consumption. Finding your car can not actually reach its advertised maximum speed when you go to work or back again in the height of rush hour or that its advertise urban fuel consumption is different from what you actually get based on the fact that you drive only in the worst rush hour traffic would be a better analogy.

This is as much in my view about unrealistic expectations as anything else. We are talking here about a service that costs less than £4 sterling a week. Please do just consider that for a moment. That is £4 sterling, not even 2 packets of cigarettes at TRNC prices a week and not even one at UK prices. Its a couple of Gloria Jeans large coffees a week. Let me also tell you of two internet connections in the UK, both to the same building and both provided by the same company. One is a domestic 'fibre' connection with an advertised 'up to' speed of 79Mbs. The other is a real fibre business leased line connection with a speed of 100Mbs. So the 'consumer' connection is 76% of the headline speed of the business one. So you would expect the business one to be around 25% more expensive right ? Wrong. The home consumer connection costs around £40 pm including phone line rental. The business connection cost £1350 pm. Yes that is right - one thousand three hundred and fifty pounds a MONTH. An expectation that the £40pm home connection will perform like the £1350pm business leased line is unrealistic, yet it does often feel that is the expectation that some customers have.

I hate this 'up to' basis which means from 0 to whatever and depends on the weather, too many customers or other 'technical difficulties'.

This 'up to' is true of EVERY domestic internet connection in the world. None of them are the same as a dedicated line and you can see above the kind of price difference in such a product. If you think I am just making this stuff up have a look here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... -deal.html

New research by Ofcom, the regulator for the telecommunications industry, reveals that British consumers obtain an average broadband speed of 3.6 Megabits (Mbs) per second – significantly below advertised headline speeds of 'up to 8Mbs'. (snip) Over 60pc of UK broadband consumers subscribe to services which promise 'up to 8 Mbs a second', yet one in five subscribers actually receives an average speed of less than 2 Mbs a second.

[cont]

[erol]

The fact is with Multimax 'up to' is NOT a catch all meaning any level of service is deemed acceptable. As I say above if your speed it 2Mbs then we will do all in our power to rectify that as soon as is possible. At the end of the day we back this up with our 'no quibble' money back guarantee on any unused portion of your contract, something no other provider offers, not in the UK to those customers paying for '8Mbs' and getting less than 2Mbs in the telegraph article I quote or any other providers here either. Yes we do have technical difficulties that can and do affect customers speeds, that is just a reality - we do not make these up or engineer them for our amusement. When we have them we do all that we can to get them rectified as efficiently as possible, within the limits of a product costing less than £4 per week.

Please accept I really admire and respect those that go into business, invest, take the risks. Have a great customer delivery ethic especially in difficult times and locations. A company that delivers what it promises, is open, honest & upfront with their customers. Who accept criticism, learn from it and not get defensive or take it personally.

I genuinely believe that Multimax is the most open, honest and up front with its customers Internet provider here, we do accept criticism and we constant seek to improve our levels of service and customer support. However there is 'valid' criticism and then there is less valid criticism, often based on incorrect assumptions and unrealistic expectations. If defending ourselves for the later is seen as us being 'defensive' or 'taking it personally' then so be it. I do not think it is either myself but your entitled to your own opinion of course.

I am but a humble customer,I pay up front and don't abuse the system. Is it too much to get the service I expect?

Well that all depends on your expectations. It is certainly possible that with the wrong expectations , it is too much.

[muppet]

I would like an internet provider that provided the service you have paid for , ie speed and service this is a word ( service ) most business here do not understand....
.

[erol]

I would like an internet provider that provided the service you have paid for , ie speed and service this is a word ( service ) most business here do not understand.....

Again at the risk of sounding 'defensive' and even though you are not a MM customer, did you read the link I posted above from the telegraph newspaper ? Yes it is from 2009 but do you think those customers in the UK on up to 8Mbs packages who on average are getting less than 3.6mbs and 20% of whom are getting less than 2Mbs are 'getting the service they paid for' ? Have you ever tried ringing (often on a premium rate number) up or emailing BT or Sky or Virgin in the UK to say, BBc iPlayer or ITV player or filmon is breaking up and you want your internet connection 'fixed' because you are fed up with this lack of service ? Are things really that better in the UK in terms of domestic internet service provision and the customer support they offer ?

[desih]

Good answers Erol. Service from Multimax is second to none in North Cyprus.

[karmels]

desih.
It seems you have a 50 meg connection ???

[desih]

No, up to 20mb only.

[Hector]

I find it difficult to accept that by expecting the service I have paid for from MM, I have 'the wrong expectations' when I (and presumably the other customers) don't get it.

Has MM simply got too many customers, which waters down the service speed available? It seems so to me to be the case if the internet signal slows down especially during 'peak times'. Can MM not 'buy in' more bandwidth or whatever it is from it's supplier in Turkey?

What happened to the business mantra that the customer is king? That customer loyalty and retention is the Holy Grail for business or is that only where there is strong competition?

[Floradora]

Off topic but re Multimax
We are very pleased with their service. Very reliable and steady. Good communication (text alerts) own VPN included
Very rarely have any buffering when watching iplayer and the like.
Have recommended to others and they have been happy too. And you both get one month free.
Come on what more do you want?

Kevin

[Carbotec]

Well said Hector, that all I require, we want what we paid for.

[kbasat]

Well well well, I really do not want to sound any rude or disrespectful, but the simplistic approach to Multimax business is just naive...

Hector said: "Can MM not 'buy in' more bandwidth or whatever it is from it's supplier in Turkey?" Can a restaurant double its serving capacity just by buying more meat? can a construction company build double as many houses only by buying more bricks? How can one think that by increasing MM line out to Turkey will solve any and all problems is really superficial to say the least.

For those of you who are interested and care, Multimax does not just resell bandwidth that it purchased from Turkey. The Internet we buy from Turkey does not magically appear on customers' homes. MM run a complex network of fiberoptics and wireless links and basestations as well ad customer premises equipment in order to deliver the internet purchased from Turkey to the end user. As most of you already knows, there is very little to no communications infrastructure built on the island for high speed data communications. This means that instead of benefiting from an existing system, the whole infrastructure MM uses are paid for and built by MM itself. For all of your information, approx 10% of MM costs go to our Internet purchase from Turkey, 60% goes to delivering this Internet from Lefkosa to customers, and 30% to administrative costs including salaries.

On top of all the unappreciated complex and hard work we are doing, we are required to use wireless frequencies that are in the licence-free spectrum. This means that all providers, and individuals and other companies may and do use these frequencies without any need for registration and licensing. This means that there is a constant battle against frequency interference that degrades our system performance. There is no way to prevent it, only to monitor systems 24/7 and making adjustments when necessary, and also using better (read: more expensive) equipment in order to deal with the interference better.

We are able to offer better service levels to certain areas than others, because of a lot of factors, some of them outlined above. You need to realize this, we could say our internet is 5mbps and provide that accross the area FOR THE SAME PRICE, or we could advertise UP TO 20Mbit and charge the same price and whoever is able to get the extra speed, will be a bonus. I believe everybody should be able to understand the good logic in here that people who are not getting the full 20mbits is not being penalized, its the one who CAN get it are being offered a small bonus.

No matter what we say, or how we explain it, people still will come on board and claim "that all I require, we want what we paid for" even though they are already getting just that. It is because you expect to receive more than what you have paid for or not understanding the whole concept of Internet provision makes you act this way. For those, there is nothing much we can do EXCEPT to offer best performance guarantee among competition and/or 100% money back guarantee for the unused portion of your account, no questions asked, if you believe you can get a better value elsewhere.

For reference to everybody and if you really like to receive 'what you paid for', Multimax has been offering business packages almost from its inception. The price for 11Mbits dedicated line is 480TL/month and for 22Mbits its 870TL/month. Full price list is available on our website http://www.mmcyp.com -> Products -> Business Packages . Under these packages, you do get a dedicated line, a service level agreement that guarantees you 24/7 support as well as guarantees that your speed will not go below 90% of advertised speeds.

There seems to be no limit to peoples expectations, the more we have been offering to our customers, the more unhappy customers we seem to get because they expect to get more...

4 Years ago, we have entered the market where 1Mbits and even 0.5mbits of speeds were the norm by offering 2Mbits as our minimum package going all the way up to 10Mbits. Now are are offering Upto 15Mbits package as our minimum, and conducting controlled beta tests in certain areas to offer upto 50Mbits speeds... Our 2Mbit package price 4 years ago was 700TL compared to 749TL we are charging now for the upto 15Mbit package now, while USD rate has gone up 45% from ~1.6 to ~2.3...

Inconsiderate criticism regarding ourselves and our work will never deter us from moving forward and we will always continue working in order to provide better service to our customers.

Kemal

[Hector]

'Well well well, I really do not want to sound any rude or disrespectful, but the simplistic approach to Multimax business is just naive...'

Well yes, I think you are being rude and disrespectful. Why are you responding to honest customer feedback in that manner? So customers expecting the service for what they have paid for are ''just naive'?

'Hector said: "Can MM not 'buy in' more bandwidth or whatever it is from it's supplier in Turkey?" How can one think that by increasing MM line out to Turkey will solve any and all problems is really superficial to say the least.'

'How can one think that by increasing MM line out to Turkey will solve all problems is really superficial to say the least'

Really? You really know how to respectfully and tactfully respond to your customers! Do you really expect your customers to know about bandwidth and how MM operates if they haven't been informed? Is this on your website?


'For those of you who are interested and care Multimax does not just resell bandwidth that it purchased from Turkey. The Internet we buy from Turkey does not magically appear on customers' homes. MM run a complex network of fiberoptics and wireless links and basestations as well ad customer premises equipment in order to deliver the internet purchased from Turkey to the end user. As most of you already knows, there is very little to no communications infrastructure built on the island for high speed data communications. This means that instead of benefiting from an existing system, the whole infrastructure MM uses are paid for and built by MM itself. For all of your information, approx 10% of MM costs go to our Internet purchase from Turkey, 60% goes to delivering this Internet from Lefkosa to customers, and 30% to administrative costs including salaries.

On top of all the unappreciated complex and hard work we are doing, we are required to use wireless frequencies that are in the licence-free spectrum. This means that all providers, and individuals and other companies may and do use these frequencies without any need for registration and licensing. This means that there is a constant battle against frequency interference that degrades our system performance. There is no way to prevent it, only to monitor systems 24/7 and making adjustments when necessary, and also using better (read: more expensive) equipment in order to deal with the interference better.'

Well done, an explanation and no, your work is not 'unappreciated', we just don't know! Remember customers show their appreciation by staying with your company and care enough to give you feedback.

'We are able to offer better service levels to certain areas than others, because of a lot of factors, some of them outlined above. You need to realize this, we could say our internet is 5mbps and provide that accross the area FOR THE SAME PRICE, or we could advertise UP TO 20Mbit and charge the same price and whoever is able to get the extra speed, will be a bonus. I believe everybody should be able to understand the good logic in here that people who are not getting the full 20mbits is not being penalized, its the one who CAN get it are being offered a small bonus.'

Is this 'better service levels in some areas' stated in your advertising and on your website? Do you explain this to your customers when they sign up and pay? It certainly wasn't explained to me.
If I pay for up to 20mbs and I actually get it then I'm getting a 'small bonus'? If you go to the petrol station and pay for 20 gallons, are you getting ‘a small bonus’ if you get all 20 gallons?

[Hector]

'No matter what we say, or how we explain it, people still will come on board and claim "that all I require, we want what we paid for" even though they are already getting just that.'

Really? Already getting what they paid for? So why do you get complaints? What have I actually paid for? Was that for intermittent service especially at 'peak times' or whilst you battle with others over frequencies or that I live in the wrong place?

'It is because you expect to receive more than what you have paid for or not understanding the whole concept of Internet provision makes you act this way. For those, there is nothing much we can do EXCEPT to offer best performance guarantee among competition and/or 100% money back guarantee for the unused portion of your account, no questions asked, if you believe you can get a better value elsewhere.'

How can I receive more than I paid for? According to you if I actually get what I paid for it's a 'small bonus'. Your attitude then appears to be a dismissive 'Well if you don't like it you know what you can do.' Customer relations at it's very best? What happens when a competitor comes and and does provide a reliable and better service?

'For reference to everybody and if you really like to receive 'what you paid for', Multimax has been offering business packages almost from its inception. The price for 11Mbits dedicated line is 480TL/month and for 22Mbits its 870TL/month.....as well as guarantees that your speed will not go below 90% of advertised speeds.'

So, if customers want to really receive what they have paid for, they have to pay for a hugely expensive business package through a dedicated line. If I were a business I would have explored that in the first place. I'm not. I'm just someone who wants to check emails, surf the internet and watch TV in the evenings. That's what I thought I paid for. I wasn't told that it would be ‘a small bonus’ if I actually got that.

'There seems to be no limit to peoples expectations, the more we have been offering to our customers, the more unhappy customers we seem to get because they expect to get more...'

How do you actually manage people’s expectations? If you offer more is it strange that you get complaints when you don't deliver?

'4 Years ago, we have entered the market where 1Mbits and even 0.5mbits of speeds were the norm by offering 2Mbits as our minimum package going all the way up to 10Mbits. Now are are offering Upto 15Mbits package as our minimum, and conducting controlled beta tests in certain areas to offer upto 50Mbits speeds... '

Well done. You have worked hard and done well. Keep up the good work. That's how a business grows and retains existing customers.

'Inconsiderate criticism regarding ourselves and our work will never deter us from moving forward and we will always continue working in order to provide better service to our customers.'

I'm pleased to hear that. The criticism is not 'inconsiderate' and is aimed at giving you honest feedback on the service you advertise and provide. Please take it as that. When your service works well as it often does it is appreciated and much valued.

IMHO it's through such valuable customer feedback that companies can take such issues on board. Businesses that survive and grow are those that value their customers, take notice of feedback, deliver more and charge less than their competitors and are flexible as conditions change. Not living up to customers expectations, or not providing what your customers want and have paid for is the path to ruin however good your intentions are, how much has been invested or how hard you have worked.

Please accept your customers including this one, want you to survive, prosper and grow!

[MoBry]

I really think the hearts of the Multimax people must sink when they see yet another thread on KibKom complaining about their service. It may please people to sound like smartypants but in reality they sound like a bunch of never-satisfied whingers who have no idea about the difficulties of providing internet services. Easy snipe from the sidelines. Having lived in Australia, you paid TL100 a month for your line, then paid for the broadband on top of that. If you were lucky, you could get WiFi in the big cities but it depended on the area you lived in. Often even broadband wasn't available in some city areas. It was heaps more expensive then Multimax and I, for one, am deeply appreciative of Multimax' service plus the patience of staff in answering the constant nit-picking on this forum. I've also always appreciated the speed with which Multimax handles problems and ensures people are notified by SMS when there are problems in supply. It's so easy to criticise and snipe but .gGratitude doesn't go amiss and to Multimax and staff I simply say: Respect. Total respect!

[erol]

Hi Hector.

I have written a reply to your post and it is very long I am afraid. It was difficult to write and even deciding whether to post it or not was itself not a simple decision.

[erol]

Hi Hector.
Please appreciate that replying to posts such as yours on a public forum is not easy. I absolutely do not want, as a representative of Mulitmax, to sound confrontational or combative. I do want to try and address some of the points you raise.

Is this 'better service levels in some areas' stated in your advertising and on your website? Do you explain this to your customers when they sign up and pay? It certainly wasn't explained to me."

The exact wording on the website and on our sales literature is as follows

-Above mentioned specified connection speeds are subjected to, your exact location, frequency signal pollution in the area, weather conditions and volume of data traffic at the local base station."

In what is I am afraid to become a common theme in my reply here I would firstly point out that in terms of comparison to our competitors this kind of information on our website and sales literature is itself 'atypical'.

As to how we explain our services to prospective new customers and indeed market them, this is something that we are constantly discussing and reviewing internally and something I would love to get more opinions and feedback from customers about. This is an area where potentially a forum like this can be in my view of value to both Multimax as a company and its customers. Before I try and start that discussion I would also like to say that how we explain the packages we offer is today very different from even 6 months ago and has evolved through an ongoing process of review and refinement in light of customer feedback and experience.

[cont]

[erol]

In terms of the general discussion it is I think important to understand that the way in which Multimax prices its 'home use' internet access products is not just unique in North Cyprus but actually pretty much unique worldwide. There are no 'precedents' to refer to in terms of how to effectively present and market such services. We are breaking new ground here. In fact there is just the 'weight' of how traditional 'home use' internet access products have been priced and marketed before to contend with.

So what is this 'big difference' with how Multimax prices its home access products then ? In essence we do not price according to artificially imposed 'lowest common denominator' speed tier maximums, that are themselves 'up to' speeds typically not reached in peak times anyway. What primarily limits a given Multimax customer's speed is actually the physically limitations of the technology we use to deliver the service into your home, which varies based on the factors described above.

This is actually a profoundly key difference and I have to admit that when Kemal first proposed it I failed to fully appreciate just how profound it actually was and I was indeed burdened with the weight of how such products had always been priced and marketed historically by us and others. Kemal's original proposal was actually to have two products named 'gold' and 'platinum' with no mention of specific 'speed' numbers. At that time I argued that we could not sell such a product without a 'number' but I have to admit that with the hindsight I now have I now believe that I was wrong and Kemal was right all along. I am afraid I fell into the trap of thinking 'we cannot do that because nobody else has done it before' without actually appreciating the reverse that if everyone thought that way innovation would cease to exist.

[cont]

[erol]

Things have changed and evolved over time but right now the truth is that the 'numbers' of the two packages we offer of 'up to' 15mbs and 'up to' 20mbs in the Girne region are essentially totally arbitrary. We have customers on the 'up to' 15mbs package that, at one end of the spectrum , can and do consistently receive speeds of 30 and even 40mbs and we also have customers on the 'up to 20mbs' package at the other end of the spectrum who may only see speeds as 'low' as 4mbs. There is a difference between the two packages that accounts for the difference in price of them and I will come to that shortly but it is not actually that one is 'faster' than the other. Before I get to the details of the difference between these two packages let me just make the point that even at the 'bad' end of the spectrum with a customer on the 'up to' 20mbs package (or platinum package) who is getting 4mbs speeds, this would still be providing them with double what they would typically get form our competitors are the same cost.

So if we do not differentiate between the two packages based on an artificially imposed maximum speed cap , what is the difference between them that justifies the difference in their prices ? The answer in short is they have different 'traffic management policy' thresholds and consequences for reaching those thresholds . Traffic management policies are nothing new in the 'home use' internet provision business. Many ISPs around the world use them and have done for many years now. The intention of them is to limit the degree to which a minority of a networks heaviest users can potentially have on other users during times of 'peak load' on the network (or rush hour if you prefer). Worldwide there are ISPs (internet service providers) that use the 'traditional' pricing structures of tiers of artificially imposed speed maximums that also operate traffic management policies. For us at Multimax, with our ground breaking approach to how we price our services, the need to ensure that a minority of heaviest users can not adversely affect the speeds of other users during the periods of peak usage (rush hour) is even more acute. We seek to do this with via traffic management policies and the actual difference between the two packages we offer in the Girne region is defined by the specifics of how the traffic management policies work on each product.

[cont]

[erol]

Before I detail the exact specifics of how the Multimax traffic management policies work in regard to the two 'home use' products we offer in the Girne region, I do just want to talk a little about the 'history' of how we explained these policies to customers when we first introduced them as a necessary adjunct to the 'revolutionary' packages and how this alone has evolved over time in light of experience and customer feedback. When we first discussed internally moving to packages that were not priced based on tiers of constant artificially imposed limits on a customer's speed and the need to then put traffic management policies in place we analysed just how many customer would actually be affected by these policies were they in place and if people on the old packages were migrated to the proposed two new ones. We came up with a figured of around 15% of all customers that would be at times so effected and around 85% who would not, based on historic usage data. Whilst we had back then absolutely no agenda of trying to hide these policies to those who were affected by them we did have concerns about overly 'pushing' them to existing customer and prospective new customer, the vast majority of which would not actually be affected by them in any case. So we did take a decision to not openly push such information at customers and prospective customers but instead to provide the information to customers that were affected on an 'individual' basis, essentially as they reported slow speeds at peak times and we could see from their individual usage records that the cause was the traffic management policy. That was where we started from but as a result of ongoing discussion and review and in light of customer feedback we now are much more explicit about the traffic management policy with new prospective customers despite the fact that we know most will be unaffected by it.

[cont]

[erol]

So how exactly does this traffic management policy work and what are the differences in how it works between the two packages we offer? The traffic management policy tracks, each day, the volume of data a customer uploads or downloads via their internet connection during peak hours. Peak hours are defined as 12.00 midday to 12.00 midnight. Data uploaded or downloaded outside of peak hours, defined as from midnight to midday, has no affect at all no matter how large the volume is. If and when a customer's volume of data uploaded or downloaded during peak hours exceeds a predefined threshold then the connection is artificially reduced in speed until midnight that day at which point it goes back to its unrestricted speed limited only by the physical maximum imposed by the technology used to deliver it to a customer's house. In fact there are two tiers of thresholds of total volume uploaded and downloaded in peak periods for each package and two levels of artificial speed limiting till midnight that day for each of the packages. For the 'gold' (currently called up to 15mbs) package the first threshold is a total volume of 2GB of data uploaded or downloaded in peak periods and reaching this threshold results in an artificial limit on maximum speed of 3mbs that stays in place until midnight that day. If having reached this threshold the customer then uploads or downloads a further volume of 2GB of data, making a total of 4GB, the connection is artificially slowed down a further time to 1mbs that lasts until midnight that day. For the 'platinum' package (currently called up to 20mbs) the first threshold for total volume of data uploaded and downloaded during peak hours is 4GB of data, at which point the connection is artificially limited to 5mbs that stays in place until midnight that day. If having reached this threshold the customer then uploads or downloads a further volume of 4GB of data, making a total of 8GB, the connection is artificially slowed down a further time to 2.5mbs that lasts until midnight that day.

Traffic management policies are technical by their nature and the volumes of data upload and download can be confusing to those not familiar with such things. We do our best to explain them as clearly as we can to existing customers and prospective new customers and to simplify things for those who want a simple 'what package should I use' answers. Data downloaded means anything that comes (down) to your machine form 'outside'. Data uploaded is anything sent (up) from your machine to the 'outside'. For most users the only kind of usage that is likely to lead to them reach the thresholds on the Multimax package with the lower thresholds (gold / up to 15mbs package) is those involving video, be that streaming video or downloading video. With downloading video you can of course just do the downloading in off peak hours and then this avoids the potential of reaching a threshold all together. With streaming video the usage will be at the time you want to stream it and this would typically be in peak hours. In approximate terms 1GB of data volume would equate to 1.5 hours of standard definition video. So on the lower Multimax package after approximately 3hours of streaming standard definition video in peak times your connection would be artificially limited to 3Mbs until midnight that day. After another 3hours, so a total of 6 it would be limited to 1mbs until midnight that day. On the higher level package, after approximately 6 hours of streaming standard definition video it would be limited to 5mbs and after a further 6 hours, so a total of 12 it would be limited to 2mbs.

[cont]

[erol]

So why do we do this at all ? Why not just price our packages in the same way that everyone else does based on tiers of artificially imposed lowest common denominator maximums , that are themselves 'up to' speeds typically not reached in peak times anyway ? One answer to that question would be because it allows us to offer faster actual speeds to our customers all or most of the time than our competitors at a cheaper or similar price. Not just slightly faster in most cases but 2, 4 , 8 and at even in some cases 10 and 20 times faster. However this is as much or possibly more about the philosophy of the company, what drives it and motivates it, as it is about the sheer commercial opportunity. As much as Kemal is a business man and entrepreneur he is also in his heart an internet 'user', passionate about it from a users perspective, as am I also. As a 'user' he wants, I believe, as many people to be able to enjoy the use of the best internet at the highest speeds at the lowest cost possible, not just to make money but also as an end in and of itself. As a user on a 'traditional' artificially tiered package of say for example 2mbs , I would sit there at say 1 am in the morning trying to download a movie or the latest game, knowing that my connection could run faster, much faster. Not only knowing it could run faster but also knowing that it could do so at such times without my usage affecting anyone else and without any additional cost involved at all to the company providing it. Knowing that the network was sitting there with large amounts of unused spare capacity that had all already been paid for but that I was unable to use such because I had been sold a '2mbs' service. I believe that it is this kind of frustration from a users perspective that drives Kemal and Multimax to look at such innovative ways of pricing our packages. We do not want our customers sitting on the end of an internet connection at times when there is large amounts of spare network capacity available that has already been paid for unable to use such because of artificial limits imposed merely so we can charge more for a 2mbs service that for a 1mbs and more again for a 4mbs. We want our customers to be able to run as fast as they can limited only by the physical limits imposed by the technology and the need to ensure one person usage does not unfairly adversely affect another's in peak hours.

So this is where we are today, how we got there and why we went there in the first place. If you are still with me Hector then firstly thank you and congratulations. Hopefully by now you can see and appreciate why selling such a service is not as simple as selling 20 litres of petrol of 20 kilos of lamb. Understandably you want to 'get what you have paid for' and we absolutely want to deliver what you have paid for and be as clear as possible with our customer what is we are selling in ways that is understandable to them be they technical people like me or non technical at all like say my mother for example. This is no easy thing to achieve and this is where, if you are still with me, I and indeed Multimax would welcome your feedback and comments and views.

[cont]

[erol]

Just how should we describe and market and sell our products, such that customers can clearly understand what is they are buying and we are selling? How do we effectively answer such questions as 'how fast will my connection be' ? These are questions I would love feedback and views on from anyone willing to offer them. I will kick off by outlining how we currently 'market' these products and some possible alternative ways we could do so.

Currently we market two packages of 'up to15mbs' and 'up to 20mbs' even though these speeds are in fact arbitrary and the difference in the two packages is not in terms of speed but in terms of the differences in traffic management policies. What actual speed a customer gets will vary from customer to customer based and also vary at different times during the day and may further be limited by traffic management policies. Close to 100% of our customers on these packages, when there are not specific technical problems, will get actual speeds faster than they can get from our competitors for the same or less cost. Some get up to as much as 20 times the speed they would get from our competitors for the same cost. Most get significantly faster speeds than they would get from our competitors .This is backed up by our 'no quibble' money back guarantee on any unused portion of your contract.

Another possible way to market our products would be to simply market a single product as an 'up to 4mbs' package or have two as 4mbs 'basic' and 4mbs 'super' and say nothing about the fact that nearly all customers will get more than this 4mbs and some at best of times may even get as much as ten times more and just rely on 'word of mouth' to make customer aware of this.

The there is Kemal's original idea of two packages called 'gold' and 'platinum' with no specific speed mentioned at all.

[cont]

[erol]

I would very much like to hear people's views, customers or not. How would you respond to a package called simply 'gold' or 'platinum' with no mention of specific speeds ? Would you rather be told on asking as a potential new customer 'what speed will I get' , 'we do not know until we come and install it' or 'average speed across all our customers is X' or 'we aim to provide 4mbs at least but most customer get more than this most of the time' ? Is the traffic management policy understandable ? To what degree should we mention this to prospective new customers ? Currently we try and ask about peoples intended usage and if they say watch streaming video we recommend the up to 20mbs package. Is there a better way ?

[Shell232]

Wow Erol that was a very lengthy message and a lot of information.

I am not currently a Multimax customer but considering changing to you in Feb 2015 when our current package expires.

WHen I am looking for an internet provider I am looking for a company that will provide me with accurate expectations before I buy. You must know which are your problem areas for internet and where you know customers are getting less coverage than most. I have friends who are really happy with Multimax but they live in the centre of Girne, we live up just off the Bellapais road and I am concerned we would not get the same service but being paying the same money. I would have thought in this day and age of technology you would have equipment to test for signal strength and reliability at a property prior to installing all the equipment. In the UK prior to the digital cross over you could see on a detailed map which were the problem areas for signal.

My partner watches tv online during the afternoon and I do the same in the evening. If this is the case are we going to hit the threshold every day so my evening viewing will be restricted until midnight?

[Jonnie]

To be honest Erol other than a few repetitively "unhappy" customers whom I think will never be happy MM provide the best service this part of the Island has ever encountered. I fully understand the packages and their limitations as regard to usage limits and expected speeds however there seems to be a common theme to complaints.

Speed test results. Users need to understand that MM only have control of speeds on the island. To me an up to 20mbps connection should be able to deliver a min of 10mbps pretty much most of the time as a test to MM, on the island. Mine does and really I only notice a drop off once it goes under 7. If it is under 7 for any length of time I let you know and it is investigated. It is important to note that if people test off island ie to the UK or even to Turkey these are speeds outside your control. These speeds may effect things like BBC at peak or any other time again outside your control.

I consistently see people complaining as a result of poor TV, streaming or downloading, people need to understand that mostly these things are out of MM control and relate to the streaming quality and speeds available from the source.

In addition to the above, something I was unaware of was the capping of speeds during peak periods. This has never effected me since I understood what was going on. It only affected me because at times I can be a heavy downloader. This was easily corrected when I set my downloads only to happen overnight. I might add that even when capped my service was adequate for TV reception on streaming.

Personally I think MM needs to take note that the vast (speaking from loads of happy customers that I know) majority of customers are happy and all they need to do is to slightly refine the way they operate. The whole thing about speeds being up to and customers getting what they pay for keeps getting re-visited however it is the same the world over.

Internet speaking MM is the best thing that has happened to the island, if you have problems work with them, they are a decent, progressive company, listen to them and try to understand what they are telling you.

Finally Erol, thanks for trying your best here I honestly feel sometimes you are banging your head on a wall of people who will never listen and refuse to understand.

[Jonnie]

Wow Erol that was a very lengthy message and a lot of information.

I am not currently a Multimax customer but considering changing to you in Feb 2015 when our current package expires.

WHen I am looking for an internet provider I am looking for a company that will provide me with accurate expectations before I buy. You must know which are your problem areas for internet and where you know customers are getting less coverage than most. I have friends who are really happy with Multimax but they live in the centre of Girne, we live up just off the Bellapais road and I am concerned we would not get the same service but being paying the same money. I would have thought in this day and age of technology you would have equipment to test for signal strength and reliability at a property prior to installing all the equipment. In the UK prior to the digital cross over you could see on a detailed map which were the problem areas for signal.

My partner watches tv online during the afternoon and I do the same in the evening. If this is the case are we going to hit the threshold every day so my evening viewing will be restricted until midnight?

In my experience even if you hit the threshold TV will not be an issue. Normal watching will not create the restriction, I have on occasion been restricted but only when I have been downloading heavily outside tv viewing.

[kbasat]

I would have thought in this day and age of technology you would have equipment to test for signal strength and reliability at a property prior to installing all the equipment. In the UK prior to the digital cross over you could see on a detailed map which were the problem areas for signal.

Signal strength is just one of the many factors that would potentially affect the end user service quality. What you are suggesting(testing signal strength and reliability) is not impossible but it is indeed impossible to conduct a definitive test over a short period of time (just by a short visit). It takes same, if not less effort to actually install the customer, and this, combined with our 100% unconditional money back guarantee, provides the best medium for testing(by the customer and MM staff remotely if needed).

My partner watches tv online during the afternoon and I do the same in the evening. If this is the case are we going to hit the threshold every day so my evening viewing will be restricted until midnight?

With upto 20Mbits package, you are very likely to be able to watch tv online even if you hit the maximum restrictions, it only means that you wont be able to watch TV and do some other stuff at the same time under full restrictions.

K.

[erol]

Just to add to what Kemal has already said.

You must know which are your problem areas for internet and where you know customers are getting less coverage than most.

If we have a generic problem in a specific geographical area, we look for solutions. This is what we do, this is our job and it is a constant evolving process. There really is not such a thing as an 'area' that is worse or better than others, per se. The primary factor that will define the physical limit is to a specific location, rather than all locations in a given area. For example and at the simplest level you could have two house next to each and at one house there is a tree partially obstructing the line of sight to the base station and the other no tree. This will mean that the house without the tree obstructing the line of sight will have a faster maximum potential speed than the one with the tree.

.... and I am concerned we would not get the same service but being paying the same money.

Our customers do not all get the same level of service (meaning maximum speed) even though they pay the same money. The only way we could ensure all customers got the same level of service (speed) would be to limited everyone to the lowest common denominator and this is specifically what we do NOT want to do. What ALL our customers get is faster speeds that they can get at the same of similar price from our competitors - guaranteed. The guarantee being a 'no quibble' refund on any unused portion of your contract, should you feel having tried us that you can get faster speeds from a competitor at a similar price.

[topten]

What I would like is for me to sit down of a night at peak viewing times and get a decent evenings tv without breaking up and buffering please.

[ITFCMike]

Thanks to Multimax and no one else,other ISP`s and government included, internet speeds are unrecognisable from a few years ago but the likelihood of watching live tv consistantly without buffering,at the moment,are nil.
That`s not the fault of Multimax just the reality of living in North Cyprus and the antiquated or nil delivery infrastructure which Multimax have to contend with.

But what continually surprises me is why people pay for these TV packages and watch live TV when everything can be downloaded from iplayer in HD,non BBC programmes from Torrents in HD (educate yourself) watching when convenient without any buffering or adverts.
Live football can be streamed in for free,any professional league anywhere in the world.

No box needed,just a decent ISP, a HDMI cable,decent tele,and a laptop and a little knowledge. (Google is your friend)

[judyvin]

Is there anyway that I can check what my average usage is?

[turtle]

I think it should be made compulsory for ISP's to publish average internet speeds they deliver to customers on a monthly basis that way customers can make an educated decision whether to buy their services or not.

It can't be that hard to publish this info.......can it ?

[kbasat]

I think it should be made compulsory for ISP's to publish average internet speeds they deliver to customers on a monthly basis that way customers can make an educated decision whether to buy their services or not.

It can't be that hard to publish this info.......can it ?

It is not hard, it is impossible. Details would be too technical and boring for general audience.

K.

[Groucho]

I think it should be made compulsory for ISP's to publish average internet speeds they deliver to customers on a monthly basis that way customers can make an educated decision whether to buy their services or not.

It can't be that hard to publish this info.......can it ?

It is not hard, it is impossible. Details would be too technical and boring for general audience.

K.

Kemal, I don't think you should bother to respond to posts like this - you can't win - and your response does nothing to allay their suspicions. i.e. You say it's impossible and then that we wouldn't understand the results which must mean it is possible - just not worthwhile.

What I think you mean is whilst feasible it would not be useful as it would not provide what the poser of the question thinks it would - clarity - it would only serve to muddy the waters.

I think we (all MM customers) need to take a step back and ask ourselves if we are helping with the constant somewhat ridiculous number of questions put on here that are attempting to elicit responses in the wrong arena and causing what must be undue stress on MM's operational capability.

I would rather MM employees spent their time making sure the service was the best it could be without wasting time and energy engaging in the title-tattle on this forum. The fact that you do respond provides oxygen to those seeking to use this forum instead of your own mechanisms for addressing user concerns.

Kibkommers - I'm all for free speech but I don't think it's fair to expect a busy company to respond.

[Keithcaley]

Is there anyway that I can check what my average usage is?

Yes!

For Windows: - Right click on the taskbar at the bottom of the screen, > Click on 'Start Task Manager' > click on Performance > Click on Resource Monitor > Click on Network > Click on the four arrowheads to open sections which will show you the activity and history of each element of your network. From there you should be able to work out whatever sort of average it is, that you are interested in.

Or, as Kemal says, you might find it too technical and boring

[turtle]

Kemal, I don't think you should bother to respond to posts like this - you can't win - and your response does nothing to allay their suspicions. i.e. You say it's impossible and then that we wouldn't understand the results which must mean it is possible - just not worthwhile.

I was asking a simple question about maybe getting a product that was worth what you actualy pay for it,... no real need for pompous retorts like this !

Kibkommers - I'm all for free speech but I don't think it's fair to expect a busy company to respond.

I never asked MM to spend time answering my question it was just a suggestion that a bit more clarity on what you are paying for wouldn't be a bad thing ?
You wouldn't go into Lemar and let the manager talk you into handing over 100tl and him telling you he will meet you at the till with "about" 100tl woth of shopping would you.

Can I just say I have no axe to gring with MM and wish them every success in their business... I am just interested in this subject.

[Groucho]

I was asking a simple question about maybe getting a product that was worth what you actualy pay for it,... no real need for pompous retorts like this !

You may think your question is simple but you've been told by MM it's not a simple answer is the point... Anyway my response was mostly aimed at MM because it's them who get sucked into endless correspondence which gets more and more absurd and sometimes verging on aggressive which takes them nowhere. It's not good PR.

Kibkommers - I'm all for free speech but I don't think it's fair to expect a busy company to respond.

I never asked MM to spend time answering my question it was just a suggestion that a bit more clarity on what you are paying for wouldn't be a bad thing ?

If you don't want an answer from MM why pose the question - who else could provide the data/information only they are party to that could provide what you've asked for?

If you don't think you get a product worth what you actually pay for it - (the implication of your first sentence) then you do seem to have an axe to grind...

You wouldn't go into Lemar and let the manager talk you into handing over 100tl and him telling you he will meet you at the till with "about" 100tl woth of shopping would you.

Apples and oranges - but you might give him 100tl if he said most of the time you'll get 200tl's worth of goods but only if you come from midnight to midday!

No wireless service provider can give absolutes in the area of internet speeds because by the very nature of the beast it's constantly changing.

[dippersgirl]

You all have no idea how lucky you are to have a choice of IP's .
I think I'm so lucky if I can watch a small private video on FB or youtube without hick ups. Watching TV??????????? On my laptop???????????? The only time that worked when I had a GEZZ dongle, but that was far too expensive

I was amazed how detailed and clear Erol's information was. Maybe the moaners do not ask the right questions, before they buy.
How about this analogy - I buy a jumper and think it's wool. When I later discover it is not, whose fault is that??? Mine

I pine for MM, experienced it in Çatalköy.

Now I'm back in deepest Dipkarpaz, indifferent IP, but no moaners either!!

[erol]

I was asking a simple question about maybe getting a product that was worth what you actualy pay for it,...

The question may appear simple but it is in fact loaded and the answer is not simple.

What is an internet connection of a given performance level 'worth' ? Well that depends on the end user. For some the ability to be able to communicate more effectively with family and friends from their own home , via things like skype, facebook and even plain old email is worth a considerable amount. For others anything that fails to deliver flawless UK TV , which should not even be available here, as if they were in the UK using an aerial to pick up terrestrial broadcast, is 'worthless'. At the end of the day only you can decide if the service you are paying for is worth what you pay for it. As far as multimax goes and unlike any other internet provider I know of any where in the world, should you decide that your Multimax internet connection is not worth what you pay for it you can get a refund on any unused portion of your contract.

However I suspect your question is more along the lines 'getting what you pay for'. As I have stated many times, you can only assess if you are getting what you pay for if you first understand what it is exactly that you are paying for. If you think you are paying for an ability to get flawless UK TV here, where you should not be able to get it, then you are mistaken about what it is you are paying for. If you think you are paying for a connection with a guaranteed minimum speed complete with service level agreements, then you are mistaken about what it is you are paying for. If you think you are paying for a home internet connection that will consistently be faster than any equivalent you could get anywhere else for comparable or lower price, backed up by a 'no quibble' refund of any unused portion of the contract if you are not or simply think you are not, then you are correct about what it is you are paying for and this is what you get with a Multimax internet connection.

I can quote the figures till I am blue in the face and have done multiple times in the past. I can quote (yet again) the Ofcom reports about actual received speeds in the UK vs the 'up to' speeds they are marketed at.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/08 ... ed_survey/
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... sing-ofcom

I can state the facts once more about the price difference between a home internet connection in the UK, from BT with an 'up to' speed of 76Mb/s at a cost of around £35 per month and a business leased line connection, also from BT to the same location in the UK, of 100Mb/s that costs £1350 per month and point out (again) that an expectation that you will get a connection that performs like the £1350 per month one (or even performs at 76% of the £1350 per month) at the price of the £35 per month one is not a realistic expectation but I am not sure doing so once again will actually make any difference.

[turtle]

Wow, some people don't half read into something that is simply not there...

I simply wrote...

I think it should be made compulsory for ISP's to publish average internet speeds they deliver to customers on a monthly basis that way customers can make an educated decision whether to buy their services or not.

It can't be that hard to publish this info.......can it ?

I made a statement that was aimed at the ISP industry and NOT directly to MM which I think is very clear so please don't twist what I said.

There are a lot of people joining the online world for the first time and only last week my office had a long debate about which ISP we should recommend to a member of staff (61 year old first timer) who intends buying his wife a tablet for Christmas and asked us all which ISP should he buy and 7 of us could not agree which to recommend for him and the poor guy simply asked " why is it so complicated" I think the general concensus was they are all about the same and its a bit of a pot luck senario what speeds you will get. The poor bloke was so confused after this discussion

Butterflyaway,. I didn't want to highjack your thread and I simply made a statement that was torn apart by some.....sorry

[erol]

I made a statement that was aimed at the ISP industry and NOT directly to MM which I think is very clear so please don't twist what I said.

Who is twisting what you said ?

There are a lot of people joining the online world for the first time and only last week my office had a long debate about which ISP we should recommend to a member of staff (61 year old first timer) who intends buying his wife a tablet for Christmas and asked us all which ISP should he buy and 7 of us could not agree which to recommend for him and the poor guy simply asked " why is it so complicated"

And if he was joining the 'self drivers' world for the first time and asked in your office 'what car should I buy' you think there would be a single definitive answer ? I mean they all publish their maximum speeds, and average fuel consumption figures, though of course YOU may not actualy get the same actual fuel consumption yourself because 'it depends' and I guess they could also publish the average actual speed of people using said model, though what use that would be if they did I am not sure.

The point I am trying to get across Turtle, is that you seem to keep believing that ISP provision could be and should be as simple 'buying a kilo of lamb at the supermarket and getting a kilo of lamb' and that the fact that is not so simple, not here and not anywhere in the world is down to the ISP industry wanting it to not be so simple and this just is not the case. It is not so simple, simply because it is just not so simple.

I think the general concensus was they are all about the same and its a bit of a pot luck senario what speeds you will get. The poor bloke was so confused after this discussion

I am struggling to understand the 'general consensus' of your office's combined wisdom if I am honest, though I am of course somewhat biased. You have Nethouse Networks, standard 2mbs service , that will never go faster than 2Mb/s and may under perform even that maximum of 2Mb/s that costs 1000TL per year and has, as far as I know no 'no quibble' refund policy and then you have Multimax's 'up to' 15Mb/s service, that does not guarantee anything but that almost certainly would consistently provide more than 2Mb/s and could in fact , if you are 'pot lucky' provide more than 15Mb/s AND that has a no quibble refund policy and is 250TL per year LESS - yet your office's combined wisdom is that actually these two comparable products are 'about the same' ? Can you see where I am coming from here and why I am somewhat confused with this 'consensus opinion' that your office has come to ?

[kbasat]

There are a lot of people joining the online world for the first time and only last week my office had a long debate about which ISP we should recommend to a member of staff (61 year old first timer) who intends buying his wife a tablet for Christmas and asked us all which ISP should he buy and 7 of us could not agree which to recommend for him and the poor guy simply asked " why is it so complicated" I think the general concensus was they are all about the same and its a bit of a pot luck senario what speeds you will get. The poor bloke was so confused after this discussion

I really would like to hear the actual arguments in this case, because it really does not make sense to me (please feel free to PM or email me [email protected] or respond here).

How is it possible that there can be any debate when:
1. Multimax is the only company who claim you have the potential to go above 4mbits speeds (up to 15 or 20mbits packages)
2. Multimax is the only company who offer a no quibble refund policy on unused portion of your account.

Really really interested to hear what kind of argument can be made not to give Multimax a chance without hesitation.

K.

[Groucho]

See I told you MM would get sucked into it....

Here's the thing, there is no answer that would probably make sense to anyone who didn't already know the answer....

Turtle, I'm sorry if you don't understand that my first post was not aimed at you - it was an appeal for Kemal and Erol of MM not to get sucked into a debate they can't win because there is no answer that would satisfy the type of questions being asked that would help matters.

I might add that I was talking about questions being posed continuously, not specifically the one by you it just so happened that you posed a question that an answer to which they shouldn't be held and I was pleading for them to let it drop. Otherwise this board - given the sheer weight of MM related queries might as well be renamed the effing MM forum!

Lots of Kibkomers are fed-up to their back teeth with constant questions about internet speeds that seem to pick on MM when in fact they are by far and a way the best service currently available. We know that they (other Kibkomers) are fed-up because they keep complaining that MM issues are too often spreading like a dirty protest. Go figure

[Chillin']

Hear hear Groucho, I am one of the Kibkomers who is fed up to the back teeth with constant griping about MM from a few people. I, like you, believe MM are by far the best ISP here and offer the best deal. Its a no brainer to me and I wish those persistent moaners would exercise their right to a refund, go elsewhere and bask in the glory of infinite internet speed ..... moan over